Mesa to file bankruptcy

[go!ng for broke]

I want my mommieeee

 

[brokedash]

MAG stock was at .56 cents/share 35 minutes from the closing bell today.

 

[Motorradfahrer]

First of all, no one cares you've been there for 7 years. People busting there ass day in and day out for WHAT? A $hitty contract, wicked low pay, and embarassment that they even work there in the first place. You're busting your ass for a company that's done nothing but hurt everyone else in the industry. That's your first problem. Secondly, no one relishes in the fact that Mesa is about to take a huge deuce and everyone's about to get flushed down with it. The point is that since everyone there thought it was OK to work there in the first place, they set themselves up for it. And don't dare compare mesa airlines and ATA, not even f'n close.

When Mesa, not if, WHEN Mesa takes it's final nosedive, the gap in flying will be replaced. Maybe former mesa's will start at the bottom of some other list, but at least they'll have a job, and at least they'll see a halfway decent contract. Mesa has lowered the bar far enough and if you work there, you're part of the problem.

Ok..Ill bite. The point I was trying to make is that, no matter what company you work for, we are all humans trying to live our lives in these difficult times. I will agree, going to Mesa any time in the past few years was not a good decision. When I was hired at Air Midwest (Mesa) in 1999 things were much different then they are today. The prospect of a new hire going directly to the right seat of an RJ was almost unheard of and hiring standards, and minimums, were much higher. I'm sure there are plenty of us here who did the whole flight instructor, single pilot 135 freight route and had a couple thousand hours of experience before we ever made it to the regionals. A majority of the pilots entering the flying game today have no idea of how it was just 10 years ago just as our generation (30-40 year olds) had no idea of how hard it was to get hired in the 1970's or 80's (pay for training ect)

I see the same thing you guys do. Young pilots today seem to have a sense of "entitlement" to an jet seat. And to further that, they don't want a "small" 50-seater, no, they want to be on a E170 or a CRJ900 because their whopping 250 hours of experience. I will agree, places like Mesa (and others) made this the new reality and the low wages and poor working conditions came along with it.

While most of you are critical of the Mesa CBA and how their pilots work for peanuts you first have to look at how they got where they are today. A major factor in the reason Mesa's contract is so bad can be attributed directly to the scumbags that went over to help start to original Freedom operation (not to be confused with current F8 pilots flying 145's for Delta, for now) They put the then Mesa pilots between a rock and a hard place and forced a sub-par contract that perpetuated to race to the bottom. There were those of us, including myself, who were vocal NO voters on the contract but plenty of the pilot group (83% if memory serves me right) that were scared for their jobs and voted it in. ALPA's lies to the pilot group during this whole process contributed to this as well but thats a whole other post.

I know I am rambling here so Ill sum up what I am trying to say. As much as we all want to see Mesa and their shady business practices go away remember that their employees are people just like you and I. Instead of chanting "Mesa Sucks" all the time and relishing the fact that their employees may soon be on the street, try to practice some decorum. If we want to be treated like professionals we need to act like professionals, not immature children on the playground. I did my time at Mesa, been gone for over 2 years and am still helping others get out and on with better companies...some of you might try doing the same. If you are not helping to find a solution to the problem the your just a part of it

 

[79%N1]

But Mesa does suck.......

The days of your incessant undercutting are nearing an end. Had you all fought harder throughout the years for better pay and working conditions, and not accepted bottom of the barrel conditions in order to chase the quick jet upgrade, your peers would respect you more. Nobody out there believes that there is any other explanation for you pitiful contract and thus Mesa ability to underbit and undercut so many airlines, like Piedmont, Allegheny, Air Wisconsin, ACA, ASA, Comair....just to name a few.

 

[Caspian27]

But Mesa does suck.......

The days of your incessant undercutting are nearing an end. Had you all fought harder throughout the years for better pay and working conditions, and not accepted bottom of the barrel conditions in order to chase the quick jet upgrade, your peers would respect you more. Nobody out there believes that there is any other explanation for you pitiful contract and thus Mesa ability to underbit and undercut so many airlines, like Piedmont, Allegheny, Air Wisconsin, ACA, ASA, Comair....just to name a few.

Did you even read the above post? Reread the part about how the current contract came about: the very real threat of moving all Mesa flying to the Freedom certificate.

Mesa pilots weren't the ones negotiating with mainline management and undercutting other groups. Mesa does suck, but everyone should stop blaming the pilots and remember that it was Mesa management that brought Mesa to this point.

Pilot's should be unified against management...that was the whole point of unions in the first place. But with US/HP, NWA/DAL bickering and this venom towards Mesa pilots, it seems like bad management is winning the labor war.

 

[Motorradfahrer]

Did you even read the above post? Reread the part about how the current contract came about: the very real threat of moving all Mesa flying to the Freedom certificate.

Mesa pilots weren't the ones negotiating with mainline management and undercutting other groups. Mesa does suck, but everyone should stop blaming the pilots and remember that it was Mesa management that brought Mesa to this point.

Pilot's should be unified against management...that was the whole point of unions in the first place. But with US/HP, NWA/DAL bickering and this venom towards Mesa pilots, it seems like bad management is winning the labor war.

Thanks for getting it :beer:

 

[Motorradfahrer]

But Mesa does suck.......

The days of your incessant undercutting are nearing an end. Had you all fought harder throughout the years for better pay and working conditions, and not accepted bottom of the barrel conditions in order to chase the quick jet upgrade, your peers would respect you more. Nobody out there believes that there is any other explanation for you pitiful contract and thus Mesa ability to underbit and undercut so many airlines, like Piedmont, Allegheny, Air Wisconsin, ACA, ASA, Comair....just to name a few.

So, you are telling me that everyone "respects" you because you work at a regional other than Mesa? Where is it that you work that gains you so much respect? How hard have you fought to protect the best interests of your pilot group? I'm not attacking you here, I'm just trying to see where your statements are coming from

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Did you even read the above post? Reread the part about how the current contract came about: the very real threat of moving all Mesa flying to the Freedom certificate.

Mesa pilots weren't the ones negotiating with mainline management and undercutting other groups. Mesa does suck, but everyone should stop blaming the pilots and remember that it was Mesa management that brought Mesa to this point.

Pilot's should be unified against management...that was the whole point of unions in the first place. But with US/HP, NWA/DAL bickering and this venom towards Mesa pilots, it seems like bad management is winning the labor war.

And again, I'll feel bad for that small percentage of Mesa pilots who started prior to the current contract AND tried their best to achieve at least an industry average fair contract. For the majority tunnel vision time builders who went there after it was clearly established the company was run by a goon and the contract was way sub par, then very little sympathy and no respect.

 

[Caspian27]

And again, I'll feel bad for that small percentage of Mesa pilots who started prior to the current contract AND tried their best to achieve at least an industry average fair contract. For the majority tunnel vision time builders who went there after it was clearly established the company was run by a goon and the contract was way sub par, then very little sympathy and no respect.

I have no idea why anyone went go to work for Mesa in the last 1 1/2 - 2 years, that had other choices. They obviously weren't a "premier" regional.

However, people have many different motivations for going to work somewhere. I'm sure there where a bunch who were from areas where YV had bases that didn't want to commute. There were probably some who had been rejected from other carriers for whatever reason. There were probably some who were furloughed from other carriers. There were probably some green CFI's who didn't do their homework and had not idea what Mesa was about.

I don't have access to the seniority list, but I'm sure the pilots that have been there since before the last contract are more than just a small percentage. I'm sure a large chunk of Captains have been there for a long time.

I think calling the majority, time-builders with tunnel vision looking for a quick upgrade is simply untrue and unfair. Plus the attrition numbers prove this when about 50% of last years attrition being FO's. I think the number of FO's that left was around 400 and change. That's about 25% of the entire pilot roster. Obviously, they weren't there for quick upgrades or they would have stayed.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

There is has to be some level of unacceptable work and pay conditions that is frowned upon in this profession. Mesa was by far that level IMHO shared along with many, many others. By consistently replaying that message, hopefully it will prevent

a) another management type believing they can run a successful company by finding the lowest and cheapest work conditions possible for its' pilots. You'd think they would have learned by the example of Southwest that by treating their employees great in the process they became the most successful airline, but I guess not.

b) discouraging future pilots from willing to fly for trash carriers

 

[Soverytired]

There is has to be some level of unacceptable work and pay conditions that is frowned upon in this profession. Mesa was by far that level IMHO shared along with many, many others. By consistently replaying that message, hopefully it will prevent

a) another management type believing they can run a successful company by finding the lowest and cheapest work conditions possible for its' pilots. You'd think they would have learned by the example of Southwest that by treating their employees great in the process they became the most successful airline, but I guess not.

b) discouraging future pilots from willing to fly for trash carriers

97-98% of all Americans have never even looked at a blog.

I suspect a similar amount of pilots have never looked at a forum.

Just something to think about when the BS really starts getting out of hand around here.

 

[Medeco]

So, you are telling me that everyone "respects" you because you work at a regional other than Mesa? Where is it that you work that gains you so much respect? How hard have you fought to protect the best interests of your pilot group? I'm not attacking you here, I'm just trying to see where your statements are coming from

Last I checked he works at ASA and we stood 5 plus years against all kinds of BS.

Do some research yourself, and you will find that the ASA group stood strong for many challenges put to us my a revolving door of management with FORD and Harrison running the show.

Medeco

 

[Caspian27]

There is has to be some level of unacceptable work and pay conditions that is frowned upon in this profession. Mesa was by far that level IMHO shared along with many, many others. By consistently replaying that message, hopefully it will prevent

a) another management type believing they can run a successful company by finding the lowest and cheapest work conditions possible for its' pilots. You'd think they would have learned by the example of Southwest that by treating their employees great in the process they became the most successful airline, but I guess not.

b) discouraging future pilots from willing to fly for trash carriers

I agree.

My point all along has been: Bash management all you want, it's deserved; stop blaming the pilot's for industry undercutting.

Incidentally, we shouldn't let our friends go to work for Mesa, for all the reasons that you mentioned in your post. No new-hires is the only way to send a message to management that pay and QOL is sub-par. There are regionals out there that treat employees well and have decent work-rules, pay and benefits. (Not that it matters much anymore...not with the state of the industry...I doubt we'll see much hiring anymore by anyone for awhile.)

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Who thinks Mesa's tails will be graced with rap artist "50 cent" by weeks end to commemorate their new stock value?

 

[Motorradfahrer]

Last I checked he works at ASA and we stood 5 plus years against all kinds of BS.

Do some research yourself, and you will find that the ASA group stood strong for many challenges put to us my a revolving door of management with FORD and Harrison running the show.

Medeco

Fair enough. As I said before, I'm not trying to personally attack anyone