MESA TA Question

[WileE]

Bottom Line

I know everyone else would love the Mesa pilots to fall on their swords in the name of industry leading contracts and vote this TA down, it's not them that will end up unemployed after all. Bottom Line is that if we don't sign this contract, Johnny O has publicly stated that he will shut the doors and all the flying will be shunted over to Freedom. Mesa, Airmidwest and CCAir folks will be on the streets unless they are willing to fly for non-union Freedom. Anyone that thinks he won't do that in a heartbeat to get the union out of his shop is dreaming.

Not only would that obviously suck for all our pilots, it also wouldn't do the rest of the industry very good to set the precedent that Johnny O and his Freedom airlines tactic wins. Let that happen once and every carrier, not just Mesa will be scrambling to start their own union busting carrier so that they can whipsaw their pilots because Freedom will have demonstrated that it works, and works like a charm.

Right now the cost of killing Freedom, not only for us but for the rest of the industry, is Mesa pilots choking down a contract that is only marginally better than the old one. The only card we have to play is to get this contract signed and get the scope in effect. Johnny O lost his temper in the negotiations and let that one slip, we need to take advantage of his mistake. All the other cards are in the hands of management. And don't think that Johnny O wouldn't throw away everything if he thinks he can get rid of the union at Mesa, including the new jets for J4J. He'll find other carriers to fly for and go to sleep happy at night knowing he stuck it to the union and all his employees.

 

[BoredToDeath]

WileE,

The real bottom line is that contract carrier companys such as yours have no business flying in U colors. And it's only becuase of the old timers at Mainline that did'nt have the forsight or B@lls to keep all the flying in house.

But now that you are here you and the rest make it even more difficult for all pilots to make a good living and easier for managment to have their way with us. Don't belive me, just look at the post from Mr. Jet_Dreamer above. With everything thats going on all he cares about is if Mesa will hire soon, regardless of the pay. His is the perfect example of what has brought this industry to its knees. Trust me I am not without fault, I too went to work for a company knowing I was taking a $10,000 a year pay cut, but it was still more beneficial to work at the lowest paid WO, at the time, than it was to work for a contract carrier. This was all bound to happen sooner or later, 9-11 only speed up the proccess. Management has all the cards because too many people like him are willing to fly for dirt and some others for just above dirt, or God forbid PFT. I'll bet it won't be too long before that monster comes around again.

I understand what your saying WileE, and the position your in is a tricky one. But from my point of view it looks like JO has already won either way. I highly doubt he let anything slip that he did'nt want you to hear. Either he pays you dirt or he pays Freedom just above dirt with no union. So the onlything for you to do now is take it and run and tell everyone else its OK to fly for dirt. Hey you got yours right?

 

[PositiveRate]

The word is two interview groups of 30 each on the 27th of Feb and the 13th of Mar. I got called the other day, but respectfully declined. Good luck guys.

 

[Intruder One]

I posted this awhile back but I will do it again to see if there are any thoughts on this.A neighbor of mine let me read the T/A (furloughed CCAir Pilot) and it is not good, but at the end it has a clause to bring in the CCAir group.It states"CCAir pilots will be credited longevity for pay and benefit purposes from the date CCAir was aquired by Mesa Air Group,Inc".This comes to about 3yrs. according to my neighbor.Can you imagine what JO could do with this.He is also looking at some of the WO's to purchace,wouldn't that be a great windfall for him if he could start say a Piedment over at year 1 pay?I bet other CEO's would like to get a hold of this also,if JO can get it why not them?

And to WileE.....I don't know how big Freedumb is a this time,but I wouldn't think its big enough to carry all of Mesa flying at this point.This would seem the perfect time to talk of a strike before he has time to build up the non union carrier.

 

[Jeepman]

To all the Mesa guys, I don't know what to say other than I hope somehow all this works out for you and you can shove all the Free-dumb guys into the 1900 for a few years.


To J.O. May you some day wind up in jail using the same K.Y. that you force your pilots to use when you get gangbanged by Kenneth Lay & all the other crooked CEO's out there. Your no better than Hussein or Bin Laden.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

oh brother...

BoredToDeath,
"The real bottom line is that contract carrier companys such as yours have no business flying in U colors."

We have all the right and the business in the world to do flying for U or anyone else. This is capitalism, right? Or has the AFL-CIO convinced you that we live in a workers paradise? Is is fair to the U and WO employees or even a smart business practice? Probably not. I don't think fine companies like Southwest, JetBlue, or Skywest would ever do this to their employees. You said it yourself though, the Mainline pilots were shortsighted. You say you have scope protection and yet your flying is being bid out to contract carriers. Do you even hear what you are saying? Are you able to connect the dots yet? Get with reality...Go and be shortsighted no more.

If you could go back in time and give up some or most of the precious pieces of your contract for REAL scope and a single seniority list, would you do it? Knowing that in 4.5 years you start negotiating again from a stronger position because your CEO doesn't have the ability to make the end run again? Also hoping that the economy and airline industry have turned around?

Intruder One,
You don't just declare a strike and just talking about a strike doesn't do a hell of a lot of good. There is a process and at the rate we are going...or at some point Mesa Air Group will not need Mesa Airlines. Mesa Airlines would go the way of WestAir and CCAir and Freedumb would grow.

Jeepman,
My apologies...I mistook you for one of the U WO guys that blame us for all of lifes ills.
I wish we worked for a management team like the one at Skywest, but we don't. Our CEO cares NOTHING for the emloyees. No matter what his lips say, his actions speak far louder than his words. It is ALL about him and his massive ego.

What would your pilot group do if they were in our alter-ego shoes. While you ponder that, keep in mind that you have already seen two of your sister companies disappear with little or no trace. Would you choke down a sorry contract that offered you job security and gowth in hopes that you can ride out a weak economy and put yourself in stronger bargaining position for the future? Skywest would never do that to their employees? That is wonderful. I hope you are correct.

And Jeepman, I NEVER called myself a whore. I know fairly well what I am, and I sleep just fine at night, thank you.

Mayday911,
The TA is for 4.5 years.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

RE: Mesa's alleged interest in the WOs

I could easily be wrong, but I think the WOs are small potatoes compared to what JO really wants to go after.

 

[Jeepman]

Spaceman,

That's good the TA is only 4.5 years, thats about when the industry will (hopefully) turn around. Yes, we do have great management, The top 3 in the company took a 20% cut in pay to help us be more competetive. The word is that they want us to take a pay cut in the form of flying a 70 seat RJ for 50 seat pay, or a 90 seat RJ for who knows what pay. I don't like the idea of that, but it makes it easier to do knowing the CEO took a 20% cut before we did. Alot of guys are calling it scab flying, but I would rather do that than take a cut in pay.

In a way I wish we would buy you guys out so that I wouldn't have to hear how J.O. shafts you guys every time & you could see what it's like to work for great management & not deal with so much B.S. Lord knows there's enough B.S. in this world to fuel the worlds energy needs from here to eternity.

Take care.

 

[big dog1]

Freedom has 7or 8 planes ,if we strike now eveyone on at Freedom will be scabs, they will have to fly struck work.With that being said there will be no J4J which means no growth for freedom this whole mess needs to be stopped here!!! 4.5 years it will be something else no QOL or No pay raises.
Limited growth MESA'S HAS FIRM ORDERS ONLY THE FREEDOM PLANES- 40 A/C. THE REST IS ALL SPECULATIONS.

IF YOU EXPECT BASED ON SPECULATIONS GOOD LUCK.

WE HAVE ENOUGH CAPTAINS AS OF NOW FOR 72 PLANES,TO INCLUDE FREEDOM, THE REST ARE J4JS..............50% OURS.



VOTE NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!

 

[WileE]

Strike?

You can't strike if you are fired first. Ask CCAir guys about that. They thought they had that kind of leverage, and look at the position they are in today.

In 4.5 years if this contract is signed it means no furlough threats (he can't do that under the scope clause without pilot approval), no freedom (Mesa Air Group will be unable to play that card ever again), and no whipsawing one pilot group against another to accept a cheaper contract (ala CCAir). If you think that by turning down this contract we'll somehow get something better, you are dreaming.

Do I want to be working for Mesa in 2007? Hell no, just like everyone at the regionals I'm looking towards better things. But if the recovery doesn't happen as fast as it might, I could very well still be here. IN that case I'd much rather have more cards in my deck than JO has in his. Rob him of half his bag of dirty tricks and see how negotiations go then.

Fight the war and win in the long run, don't commit a inglorious suicide and lose it all for everyone.