Mesa TA passes

[Fltlvls]

If you can't negotiate anything better in 2011, then that would be your problem.As far as the Mesa guys ever getting an "industry standard" contract,it will never be never be good enough due to the fact that there will always be the other regionals that always try to one up the other one by saying we got 12 days off verse your 11 days off and other little crap that doesn't matter, but as with some pilots their egos get in the way and their mouth ends up overriding their a$$.If you think you should be making more flying your little 50 pax jet than a mainline guy flying the big iron then try for it in 2011, I think your management will tell you to go pound sand.Time will tell but I think mainline guys could give two sh!ts if there are any regionals left at all and there will be no more comparing as to who has the best contract.

 

[DoinTime]

Time will tell but I think mainline guys could give two sh!ts if there are any regionals left at all and there will be no more comparing as to who has the best contract.

There will always be regionals when pilots are willing to undermine other pilots and fly for food stamp wages.

 

[Fltlvls]

There will always be regionals when pilots are willing to undermine other pilots and fly for food stamp wages.

So are you saying you didn't start out making food stamp wages and wanting the quick upgrade so you could move on, I seriously doubt you are making killer money. There might be regionals but there will be alot fewer jets, I see props coming back into play again like Horizon did.

 

[kf4amu]

So are you saying you didn't start out making food stamp wages and wanting the quick upgrade so you could move on, I seriously doubt you are making killer money. There might be regionals but there will be alot fewer jets, I see props coming back into play again like Horizon did.

I agree.

Quick upgrades and food stamp wages go hand in hand. People sell out for a quick upgrade and "jet time". Theres a reason a regional airline grows, and its not because of some sort of stellar on-time performance...it just means your cheaper. I'd rather my airline be cheaper due to lower fuel burns, than cheaper due to lower pay rates.

 

[dowhite2]

50 seat rates were not negotiated because 50 seats will be GONE very shortly. Why waste negotiating capital on pay rates that will soon be obsolete.

PDub, I guarantee you we will still be flying 50 seaters for the next two years.

 

[JustaNumber]

That any pilot group would not push for an absolute minimum of industry average in a new contract is pathetic. Imminent bankruptcy or not. Either you have at least an average worth or you don't. If the company can't afford to pay you at least the average going pilot wage, they don't need to be in business. And now that you guys have lowered the bar for the industry ONCE AGAIN, you definitely don't need to be in business anymore.

Don't you realize that your entire career is influenced by what you just did? Your vote will keep regional pay down for years. And don't think for a moment that major pay is not influenced by what's going on at the regionals. So even if you "got your 1000 hours and moved on to a real airline" (yeah, right), you've still screwed yourself (and everyone else) down the line.

I think I speak for the majority of pilots, not just in FI, but in the entire industry who believe that Mesa pilots are short-sighted fools, and all we want for Christmas is for Mesa to just go away.:uzi:

 

[JoeMerchant]

OK, I was going to stay out of this, but here it goes...

I was on the MEC at AWAC when the concessions were negotiated. The first thing Kevin LW threw down in front of us was the MESA contract with the statement of 'we need to do better than this.' Our MEC chairman proceded to pick up the offending document and drop it in the trash, with the statement of 'when you are serious, then we'll talk.'

Of course, MESA ended up with alot of AWAC's (OK, UAL's) flying because we were unwilling to LOWER THE BAR the compete with MESA.

Thanks, MESA, once again, as this will make it impossible to negotiate anything better in 2011, when our CBA becomes amendable.

Oh, by the way, we have VERY GOOD scope language. Why do you think our owners haven't started an alter-ego carrier yet? They can't, our scope language is that strong.

Peace.

Rekks

That sums up nicely why this is ALPA's fault....Don't expect another pilot group to what is best for the whole....they will do what is best for themselves.....

Until we solve the issue of competing with each other for flying...this will continue....

Everyone wants the other guy to fall on their sword.....

Quit blaming each other and demand some accountability from Herndon.

 

[JustaNumber]

Joe,
Until ALPA comes up with a better strategy, the best we have now is to apply social pressure to each individual pilot to at least push for average compensation or better in every contract. In other words, every pilot has a social obligation to "raise the bar".

The only reason ALPA has had any success in the past has been through social ostracizing. Every pilot has heard the stories of captains keeping scab lists in their hat, and refusing to even talk to anyone on that list. That legend has done more for pilot unity and preventing replacement workers than anything cooked up in Herndon ever has. Now if only we could employ the same tactic against what's going on at the Mesas of the world. I don't think the solution to our problem will come from some office somewhere. I think it will come, if at all, from regular pilots.

 

[pdub20s]

Joe,
Until ALPA comes up with a better strategy, the best we have now is to apply social pressure to each individual pilot to at least push for average compensation or better in every contract. In other words, every pilot has a social obligation to "raise the bar".

The only reason ALPA has had any success in the past has been through social ostracizing. Every pilot has heard the stories of captains keeping scab lists in their hat, and refusing to even talk to anyone on that list. That legend has done more for pilot unity and preventing replacement workers than anything cooked up in Herndon ever has. Now if only we could employ the same tactic against what's going on at the Mesas of the world. I don't think the solution to our problem will come from some office somewhere. I think it will come, if at all, from regular pilots.

That's is one of the most stupidest ******************** I ever read.

Rome was not built in a day. We as mesa pilots started off behind the rest of the pack and are trying to catch up. We are just now getting industry standard. Yea rigs and the holy grail would have been nice. But right now with the current state of this company, its unrealistic to jump from the bottom to industry leading in one. Swing. We gotta move the ball down field. And we did...

 

[dooork]

That's is one of the most stupidest ******************** I ever read.

Rome was not built in a day. We as mesa pilots started off behind the rest of the pack and are trying to catch up. We are just now getting industry standard. Yea rigs and the holy grail would have been nice. But right now with the current state of this company, its unrealistic to jump from the bottom to industry leading in one. Swing. We gotta move the ball down field. And we did...

Remember, this is coming from ASA pilots who took 5 years to get a contract they could have had at 1 year into it....but they showed thier resolve to Mgmt.

 

[sweptback]

Remember, this is coming from ASA pilots who took 5 years to get a contract they could have had at 1 year into it....but they showed thier resolve to Mgmt.

We could have had payrates 1 year into the contract, sure, but the company was not willing to give us any new workrules. Our pilots were asking for better workrules, so that's what the MEC went after.

We did much, much better in the workrules department than we did in the payrate department (although we did OK in pay).

 

[JustaNumber]

That's is one of the most stupidest ******************** I ever read.

Rome was not built in a day. We as mesa pilots started off behind the rest of the pack and are trying to catch up. We are just now getting industry standard. Yea rigs and the holy grail would have been nice. But right now with the current state of this company, its unrealistic to jump from the bottom to industry leading in one. Swing. We gotta move the ball down field. And we did...

There will ALWAYS be instability in the airline industry, and there will always be excuses for why every pilot didn't do their part. I'm not saying you should have aimed for industry leading. If your company is in trouble, then at least just go for industry average. BUT NOT ONE CENT LESS. Certain pay rates are standard. Cost of living adjustments throughout the contract are standard. Rigs are now standard. I'm sorry, but you settled for easy, and you should suffer consequences from your peers. You're not going to once again vote to undercut everyone else, and reap nothing but rewards.

All pilots should create a united front in stating that any Mesa pilot that should be hired by their airline and sit to their right should get a cold shoulder. Let's take a stand against these airline wh***s.

 

[lowlycfi]

Jeez, a lot of pot calling the ketttle black on here. All of these regional contracts suck. I repeat, all of them.

I worked under a better contract as a FLIGHT ATTENDANT than any regional pilot out there has. There isn't one regioanl out there who has "raised the bar." Quit acting like your crappy regional contract is the end all be all. If your contract has a 10-1/2 hour max duty day, 11 hour minimum crew rest, 14 days off, RIGS, and $2.15/hr per diem then you can bash the crappy Mesa Contract all you want, otherwise stop kidding yourself that you are so much better off than the Mesa pilots.

 

[crj567]

That's is one of the most stupidest ******************** I ever read.

Rome was not built in a day. We as mesa pilots started off behind the rest of the pack and are trying to catch up. We are just now getting industry standard. Yea rigs and the holy grail would have been nice. But right now with the current state of this company, its unrealistic to jump from the bottom to industry leading in one. Swing. We gotta move the ball down field. And we did...

Wow-You can read! AWESOME!!!!!

-Anyone else notice that PDub actually listed 172RG as an "aircraft flown?" How on earth did you handle that monster???
Damn, that plane is so hot that the ground crews can't approach for 30 minutes after landing... Did you remember to be a sport and not cut loose the drag chute on the runway?

-MESA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rekks Inbound]

That sums up nicely why this is ALPA's fault....Don't expect another pilot group to what is best for the whole....they will do what is best for themselves.....

Yes, but not National, but MESA ALPA. (National has been working on a pattern-bargaining policy, apparently MESA chose to ignore that)


[/quote]Until we solve the issue of competing with each other for flying...this will continue....[/quote]

Agreed. Hence the reason for the change of policy at National.

[/quote]Everyone wants the other guy to fall on their sword.....[/quote]

No. Just to have the cajones to stand up and look after others AS WELL AS THEMSELVES.

[/quote]Quit blaming each other and demand some accountability from Herndon.[/quote]

We'll see about that. Remember, Prater still has to sign off on this thing.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[dooork]

There will ALWAYS be instability in the airline industry, and there will always be excuses for why every pilot didn't do their part. I'm not saying you should have aimed for industry leading. If your company is in trouble, then at least just go for industry average. BUT NOT ONE CENT LESS. Certain pay rates are standard. Cost of living adjustments throughout the contract are standard. Rigs are now standard. I'm sorry, but you settled for easy, and you should suffer consequences from your peers. You're not going to once again vote to undercut everyone else, and reap nothing but rewards.

All pilots should create a united front in stating that any Mesa pilot that should be hired by their airline and sit to their right should get a cold shoulder. Let's take a stand against these airline wh***s.

Undercut what? There are zero new contracts with airlines out there...they are shrinking everything...and if there were do you think MESA can staff it....nope...we are trying to staff the work we have let alone anything new. I voted no (and have my ballot receipt to prove it) because I think the language was not there...again...but, it is a two year deal and then back at it for the rest ( along with 7 other airlines). This contract will let us receive the block or better, line guarantee and help improve our QOL until we are in position to get the rest in two years. Not so hard to understand. If you already have those things then it is easier to work on pay rates...rigs...etc.

 

[crj567]

Jeez, a lot of pot calling the ketttle black on here. All of these regional contracts suck. I repeat, all of them.

I worked under a better contract as a FLIGHT ATTENDANT than any regional pilot out there has. There isn't one regioanl out there who has "raised the bar." Quit acting like your crappy regional contract is the end all be all. If your contract has a 10-1/2 hour max duty day, 11 hour minimum crew rest, 14 days off, RIGS, and $2.15/hr per diem then you can bash the crappy Mesa Contract all you want, otherwise stop kidding yourself that you are so much better off than the Mesa pilots.

Sounds like we should return to that thrilling career as a FA....

MESA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JustaNumber]

Jeez, a lot of pot calling the ketttle black on here. All of these regional contracts suck. I repeat, all of them.

I worked under a better contract as a FLIGHT ATTENDANT than any regional pilot out there has. There isn't one regioanl out there who has "raised the bar." Quit acting like your crappy regional contract is the end all be all. If your contract has a 10-1/2 hour max duty day, 11 hour minimum crew rest, 14 days off, RIGS, and $2.15/hr per diem then you can bash the crappy Mesa Contract all you want, otherwise stop kidding yourself that you are so much better off than the Mesa pilots.

Agreed, all regionals suck compared to major airlines, but that is my point! I'm all for doing things to change that and improve our situation. Ideally, all Delta flying would be performed by Delta pilots. But since the Delta pilots wanted nothing to do with the "little people," we have to do things on our own. The more we perpetuate the myth that we fly little unimportant planes so we deserve a little paycheck, the longer this will go on.

I say again, you are either for improving our situation, or you are not. Which one are you? And saying you are just waiting for your chance to move up to a real airline doesn't count.

 

[pdub20s]

From what I recall. Asa pilots signed in a TA that had less than the 1st offer had. And how do you explain SKW moving planes from ASA and slapping Skywest on them?

You cannot compare ASA or air whiskey to what's going on at MESA. You all have deep pockets.


There are a lot of regionals and some majors that don't have Rigs.


Rigs is not standard...

Like I said before, there is a lot we got in this TA that a lot of regionals and some majors don't.

 

[lowlycfi]

I say again, you are either for improving our situation, or you are not. Which one are you? And saying you are just waiting for your chance to move up to a real airline doesn't count.

Absolutely I'm for improving our situation. The problem is that if this thread is any indication, there isn't enough unity between pilot groups for this to ever happen. This "my crappy airline is better than your crappy airline" mentality is playing into management's hands.

Personally, I think no matter what Mesa had gotten on this contract the people on this message board would have accused them of "not raising the bar." It just seems to be the fashionable thing to do. You guys on here provide no encouragement during negotiations and then act surprised when they vote in a lousy contract. What have all of you done to help them?

I don't think any of the regional pilot groups have raised the bar. The Comair strike was the last time I've seen any pilot group willing to take one for the team.