Mesa TA passes

[DoinTime]

Compare Mesas CA 900 rates to Mesabas(Dointime)... our 900 pays more.

Lets compare 76 seat CA rates (Mesaba does not have a CRJ-900 or 90-seat rate):

MESA Mesaba
$57.16 $60.99
$58.89 $62.83
$60.67 $64.71
$62.52 $66.65
$64.39 $68.64
$66.33 $70.71
$68.30 $72.83
$70.35 $75.02
$72.46 $77.27
$74.64 $79.59
$76.88 $81.97
$79.19 $84.43
$81.56 $86.97
$84.01 $89.56
$86.54 $92.25
$87.92 $93.84
$89.33 $95.45
$90.75 $97.09
$92.20 $97.19
$93.76 $97.26

You guys aren't even close to Mesaba's bankruptcy contract rates.

Compare our 900 CA rates to Pinnacles...Neck n' neck...

Lets compare those 76 seat numbers again (Pinnacle does not have a CRJ-900 or 90-seat rate):

Mesa Pinnacle
$57.16 $61.27
$58.89 $63.10
$60.67 $65.73
$62.52 $67.70
$64.39 $69.20
$66.33 $71.31
$68.30 $73.32
$70.35 $75.69
$72.46 $78.10
$74.64 $80.73
$76.88 $83.19
$79.19 $85.19
$81.56 $88.35
$84.01 $91.10
$86.54 $93.62
$87.92 $95.72
$89.33 $97.67
$90.75 $99.69
$92.20 $99.69
$93.76 $99.69

These numbers speak for themselves but the reason they are as low as they are is because the arbitrator that set these rates used the bottom barrel Mesa rates in his calculation.

Its sad that people like you try to justify your inadequacies by spinning numbers and falsifying data in the hopes others won't know the truth.

industry leading hold back pay

The reason you even need hold back pay is because your contract allows out of seniority upgrades. Nobody else needs hold back pay because we mandate upgrades in strict seniority order.

 

[OPECJet]

Well lets talk pay rates...

Compare our 900 CA rates to SKW 900 CA pay rates... Mesas and SKW rates are neck and neck up o about a 10 year CA.

Now do the same for Comair. Compare their 700 rates to Mesas 700 rates. 1$ difference. Comair doesn't have 100% cancellation pay

Air whiskey only has CRJ200s no 900 CA pay rates...We know how profitable those -200s are....

Compare Mesas CA 900 rates to Mesabas(Dointime)... our 900 pays more.

Compare our 900 CA rates to Pinnacles...Neck n' neck...

70 seat and 90 seat aircraft are hear to stay. 50 seaters are on their way out(Sad to say). Why waste capital on equipment that will be phases out?

What I'm getting at is our CA pay rates for equipment that matter are indeed industry standard. The 50 market is going down the tubes. I fly a 50 seater but I understand times are changing. No,we did get the pay rates needed for FOs off the bat.No, But that gives us something to shoot for in 21 months. We made significant gains in this TA. Block or better(on top of line Guarantee), 100% cancellation pay, SAP(schedule adjustment period), PBS w/ ALPA input, industry leading hold back pay, and hard language from the "Harris Award". For anyone to say we lowered the bar is complete ignorance....Ignorance

PDubs.... Pinnacle is flying 900s under arbitrator imposed payrates that used an average payrate for that aircraft. Guess who's crap payrates were used in that calculation. Comair's rates were already explained to you. Mesaba rates... once again... bankruptcy rates. OK, so you're neck and neck with Skywest.... Woo freakin' hoo!

I'm glad to see you got good work rule improvements. I can understand buying off on them, then going back to the table in 21 months. Considering your company's financial position, that's good thinking.

Now... Your Mesa cheerleading is getting a little old. There are some good guys flying there, but all in all, your entire operation sucks. Most of us with a few grey hairs, you know, the ones who were out flying while you were in middle school, jerking off to the instruction booklet you found in your mom's box of tampons. We figured this out ages ago, and are a bit concerned you're still wearing a skirt and waving Mesa pom poms. Give it a rest kid, and go get 'em in two years if Johnny O hasn't run that toilet of an airline out of business.

 

[Fltlvls]

The reason you even need hold back pay is because your contract allows out of seniority upgrades. Nobody else needs hold back pay because we mandate upgrades in strict seniority order.[/quote]

Too bad your mandated seniority based upgrades are not what Pan Am had back in the day..When your number came up for upgrade you either took it or they fired your A$$.

 

[Fltlvls]

PDubs.... Pinnacle is flying 900s under arbitrator imposed payrates that used an average payrate for that aircraft. Guess who's crap payrates were used in that calculation. Comair's rates were already explained to you. Mesaba rates... once again... bankruptcy rates. OK, so you're neck and neck with Skywest.... Woo freakin' hoo!

I'm glad to see you got good work rule improvements. I can understand buying off on them, then going back to the table in 21 months. Considering your company's financial position, that's good thinking.

Now... Your Mesa cheerleading is getting a little old. There are some good guys flying there, but all in all, your entire operation sucks. Most of us with a few grey hairs, you know, the ones who were out flying while you were in middle school, jerking off to the instruction booklet you found in your mom's box of tampons. We figured this out ages ago, and are a bit concerned you're still wearing a skirt and waving Mesa pom poms. Give it a rest kid, and go get 'em in two years if Johnny O hasn't run that toilet of an airline out of business.

Another industry leader heard from. GREAT!I thought Mesa was below average, if so then how could those numbers be average Mesa payscales grandpa.

 

[rightseatjocky]

I just wonder, if Mesa is so awesome, why does Delta mgmt hate them so much? Why did Mesa lose their Orlando flying to ASA? Why is Mesa mgmt sucking the life out of their company?
I will tell you......... THEY SUCK!!!!!
uke:

 

[dooork]

Another industry leader heard from. GREAT!I thought Mesa was below average, if so then how could those numbers be average Mesa payscales grandpa.

I believe a simple way to think of average is....the highest.....the lowest divided by 2. Not so hard.

 

[dooork]

Another industry leader heard from. GREAT!I thought Mesa was below average, if so then how could those numbers be average Mesa payscales grandpa.

By the way....he is right. In bankruptcy..the judge decided the average MESA being the lowest for that aircraft...no argument about that! Someone else was the highest.....divide by 2......someone always has to be the lowest.....I just wish for once it wasn't us.

 

[Fltlvls]

I just wonder, if Mesa is so awesome, why does Delta mgmt hate them so much? Why did Mesa lose their Orlando flying to ASA? Why is Mesa mgmt sucking the life out of their company?
I will tell you......... THEY SUCK!!!!!
uke:

Yeah.ASA picked up soooo much of their flying, i believe Delta cut a crap load of Florida routes all together.How many airplanes are they flying down there now?..2 or 3

 

[Fltlvls]

By the way....he is right. In bankruptcy..the judge decided the average MESA being the lowest for that aircraft...no argument about that! Someone else was the highest.....divide by 2......someone always has to be the lowest.....I just wish for once it wasn't us.

Yeah well, sucks to be them..It's always about the money.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,
Until ALPA comes up with a better strategy, the best we have now is to apply social pressure to each individual pilot to at least push for average compensation or better in every contract. In other words, every pilot has a social obligation to "raise the bar".

The only reason ALPA has had any success in the past has been through social ostracizing. Every pilot has heard the stories of captains keeping scab lists in their hat, and refusing to even talk to anyone on that list. That legend has done more for pilot unity and preventing replacement workers than anything cooked up in Herndon ever has. Now if only we could employ the same tactic against what's going on at the Mesas of the world. I don't think the solution to our problem will come from some office somewhere. I think it will come, if at all, from regular pilots.

OK...are you going to include the mainline pilots that undercut the top regionals with lower rates/longevity costs at NWA(Compass) and USAir(MidAtlantic)?

How about pressure on ALPA? You do realize that the mainline pilots want the lower regional costs so that there is more money for them to bargain for in their contracts.

Competition lowers costs...That's a fact. Blame the system...not those who operate in the system....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Mr. Merchant, you are absolutely correct. Instead of having individual MECs do what is best for themselves we need to have a system in place so that all MECs are insentivized to do what is best for all MECs. In other words, like you said, we must take away the self competition. There are a couple of ways of doing this and Herndon is working on them but unfortunately, we the pilots, are our own worst enemy because we cannot get passed our own individual interests to see the greater good in the end.

Herndon is a day late and a dollar short.....It's like watching Congress try to "fix" the financial problem now....Human nature is to wait until it is too late to fix a problem....

Many of us were pointing out this impending train wreck 10 years ago when it was still "fixable"....Good luck....

 

[pdub20s]

Yeah.ASA picked up soooo much of their flying, i believe Delta cut a crap load of Florida routes all together.How many airplanes are they flying down there now?..2 or 3

Try zero! Where the jets use to park is now a Delta and Airtran parking lot

 

[rtmcfi]

Let me ask you this..Did Comair management try to start an alter ego carrier and try to whipsaw the two pilot groups against each other?Mesa management was literally steal flying from the ALPA carrier ie..Mesa and giving it to the alter ego Freedom and not pay protecting the Mesa guys after they showed up and found out their flight was "cancelled" and given to a Freedom 700 or 900.And there was literally a fist fight between a Mesa guy and Freedom guy on the ramp in PHX because of this.In turn we had a gun to our head which was Freedom and JO was literally stealing the flying Mesa and giving it to Freedom more and more every bid, so in turn we had to stop it by capturing the scope and stopping Freedom.

All very true, and unfortunate. The Mesa folks were against the wall, and did what they had to do. And that all has nothing to do with the latest polished turd signed up for by 418 Mesa geniuses.

I guarantee Mesa guys will have alot more negotiating leverage next time.If other regionals keep kicking the dog (Mesa pilots) they will not come out from under the porch and fight..Maybe a few might..My point is stop kicking the dog, especially now with the economy being a disaster and the massive layoffs of every industry

How will they have more leverage? They currently have management staring down a bankruptcy. JO needs an established contract to go forward with. Unfortunately, now he has that. The leverage is gone. Mesa pilots bit at this contract in how short of a time? How many pickets were held? If the Mesa pilots would stand up for themselves, other pilots would try to help. Unfortunately the Mesa group by-and-large contains a bunch of battered women who keep going back to their abusive boyfriend. (JO)

Read the article about the Big 3 auto makers that may not get the loan or bailout money due to their unions not willing to take paycuts, so they are basically saying burn it down we don't care.

Um, this has nothing to due with the sackless 418. Besides, the UAW are talking about cuts. This bailout money is in the infancy stages. I am glad to see you are so in the know about it. The money may or may not show up, but the labor rates will be adjusted one way or another. When you have folks willing to do your job for much less (Mesa) your payrate will come down. (everyone else)

The constant beating the Mesa guys take because of the contract they have or had unfortunately has resulted in bad timing, meaning last time was Freedom and this time is the economy.

What will be the excuse next time?

You say your days off went from 12 to 11 BFD.

Once you move out of your parents house, and have a life away from your job, you will want more days off.

How would you like it if your contract read no less than 8 days off per bid period(Rsv).This is an actual example of the old contract Mesa had.

Which is why I never applied at Mesa

Did you catch the conditional language "no less than" it didn't say that you would only get 8 days off it just said "no less than".Conditional language in an industry leading contract(not talking about pay rates) can turn it into a crappy contract real quick when you have words such as ...shall,may,to the extent possible,a minimum of, etc...I will bet if you had conditional words in your contract your management would also take it and run with it and when you get pissed off about it, the company will say too bad you should have negotiated that in the contract.

So the new bottom of the barrel contract removes all conditional language?

 

[pdub20s]

How many pickets were held? If the Mesa pilots would stand up for themselves, other pilots would try to help. Unfortunately the Mesa group by-and-large contains a bunch of battered women who keep going back to their abusive boyfriend. (JO)

I will say you have a point there... I think if we would have voted this down and fought against mgmt...MGT would have slaughtered us like pigs. We lack solidarity in this pilot group. Just look at the 200+ pilots that didn't vote. in the next 21 months we gotta build the back bone of this pilot group and prepare for what may come. Cuz we will be 1 of 7 pilot groups negotiating at that time and we will need to hold our weight.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

FltLvls and PDubs

Fltlvls - I wasnt talking about your old contract. Every time someone brought that contract up I always defended the mesa pilots because they secured the freedom flying all on 1 pilot seniority list. You had to give up alot to do it but it was the right thing.

Im talking about this time. By being the current bottom, or atleast bottom 3, DCI carrier in pay, work rules, and days off, you guys had the oppurtunity to significantly raise the DCI average. There was no freedom this time, no bankruptcy, although I assume its coming, and no excuses.

I defended the mesa pilots for their last contract, but I can longer defend any of you unless you can show me you voted No.


Pdub

In a previouse post you said comair doesnt have 100% cancelation pay. That is absolutly not true. We have 100% weather, maint, poor crew scheduleing, it doesnt matter. If it gets cnx we get paid. If that cnx effects other flights on our trip we are pay protected for those as well.