MESA Rwy Excursion??

[jetdriven]

the squat switch that controls the low pitch solenoid is on the right main gear. therefore, if landing in a right crosswind as soon as you touch down the props reset to the ground low pitch stop. With one wheel on the ground.
Once I had a 1900 that the left prop went into the ground low pitch stop while the left one did not. Result was a full rudder and almost full brake correction to the right to control the swerve.

 

[Best on a Camel]

I'm surprised Mesa allows FO's to land in that kind of weather.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Indeed, we don't know the facts, so the speculation is meaningless.

To the suggestion that a deferred nosewheel steering system is "always an incident waiting to happen," you might be interested to know that the 1900s with the power steering system are always landed in free-caster mode (and taken off that way, for that matter). It isn't until we're down to slow taxi speed that the steering system is engaged at all; until then, it's rudder and brakes.

We did the same thing in the mighty Metro. 5 1/2 years flying that thing and not once did I ever have a controllability issue. Line up on the runway NWS off for takeoff. NWS on after slowing to taxi speed on landing roll. Simple.


AF

 

[chperplt]

We did the same thing in the mighty Metro. 5 1/2 years flying that thing and not once did I ever have a controllability issue. Line up on the runway NWS off for takeoff. NWS on after slowing to taxi speed on landing roll. Simple.

I don't know the mechanics of the system, but I don't imagine simply turning off the system is the same as having the rods physically disconnected in the nose.

I imagine that even with the NWS system turned off, you still had the ability to control the nose wheel in some limited capacity. On the 1900 with the NWS deferred, you have no such capability.

 

[MECH]

The EMB-145 has a problem with it's nose wheel steering. It will fail on touch down. I had this happen to me. The a/c will go in the direction that the nose wheel is pointed. You cannot correct the problem unless you turn the off the hydraulic pressure to the nose wheel. At that point it becomes free castoring and the a/c is controllable. We were lucky enough to keep it on the runway. Not something I would wish on anybody.

Things happen very quickly after touch down and I would never question a crew that was unable to keep the a/c on the runway. If the pax survived the crew did their job!!!

 

[mightybeechdrvr]

Mesa (Air Midwest) Runway Excursion

A few tidbits of fact:

1. Yaw Damper was off

2. Pilots did not "cancel ifr" in the air.....merely accepted a visual approach.

3. Nosewheel steering was working just fine.

4. Captain was flying the aircraft

5. Weather (wind) does not appear to be a factor.

Along with the NTSB report already on this thread, should explain it all.

 

[CitationLover]

4. Captain was flying the aircraft

a little left out for a FACToid.

....due to the fact that the fo "didn't feel comfortable" and passed the controls.....

 

[DeltaLima21]

I wonder why he didnt feel comfortable....

Maybe its because the FO was a reserve pilot from MCI, where sometimes you dont fly for a month straight. In fact, I flew 2.7 hours last bid. Also to put this into perspective, there are 14 reserve pilots in MCI, when its slated for 2 (no hardlines whatsoever). With 12 additional pilots, flying an airplane is just a distant memory. Management needs to pull their heads out of their A$$es, and allocate the correct number of pilots to the amount of flying being performed. Sure I like being on a paid vacation, but safety is being jeopardized..... Nothing like Air Big Mess.

 

[CitationLover]

dl21,

if that is the case what is he doing ACCEPTING a flight assignment? bottom line was it was a visual approach with little wind, albeit at night.

put yourself in the captains shoes (who is responsible for the plane) who could use the same excuse as far as not flying that much. it was a tragic incident that should not have happened. i know the captain involved, and he/she must be feeling horrible right now.

 

[mightybeechdrvr]

500 Hours & already complaining?

I wonder why he didnt feel comfortable....

Maybe its because the FO was a reserve pilot from MCI, where sometimes you dont fly for a month straight. In fact, I flew 2.7 hours last bid. Also to put this into perspective, there are 14 reserve pilots in MCI, when its slated for 2 (no hardlines whatsoever). With 12 additional pilots, flying an airplane is just a distant memory. Management needs to pull their heads out of their A$$es, and allocate the correct number of pilots to the amount of flying being performed. Sure I like being on a paid vacation, but safety is being jeopardized..... Nothing like Air Big Mess.

By the looks of your total time (500 hours) and the types of aircraft flown, could I venture a guess that you are a graduate of the San Juan program (Mesa Pilot Development)? While I am sympathetic that you unfortunately are sitting reserve in MCI with a 121 carrier and collecting your 70 hour guarantee, if it were not for Mesa and "Air Big Mess", you would be sitting at your local FBO and begging for $10 per hour to ride around in the right seat of a Cessna 150 teaching kids to fly for the next 1500 hours or 2 years before you would be competitive at any other airline. If management indeed "pulled their heads out of their a$$es, the smart move would simply be to furlough the excess pilots like yourself. Is that what you want? Mgmt. probably realizes that the overstaffing is just a temporary condition (remember seat locks start disappearing next year) and do not wish to furlough unnecessarily. Even with a CFI rating, all that 500 hours is probably going to get you is an exciting and rewarding job in the sanitation or food service industries. AFter you have been at AMW a couple of more years, maybe you will have the right to gripe a little more. Until then....remember....sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees!

 

[belchfire]

I had an interesting one happen to
me back when I was in the rt seat...
in the jball

On the first start in the morning the
left powerlever cable failed and the
engine went to 80% torque when the
CA went to rev to come off the start
locks. We kind of looked at each other
for a bit, the Ca moving the left power
lever fore and aft with no response
and then shut it down.

Later in the cafe waiting for mx and
dispatch to figure out what to do with
us we discussed what would have happened
if the damm thing had turned loose the
previous night while I was landing in a
20kt crosswind from the right...

not a pretty thought!

 

[SEFlyer]

By the looks of your total time (500 hours) and the types of aircraft flown, could I venture a guess that you are a graduate of the San Juan program (Mesa Pilot Development)? While I am sympathetic that you unfortunately are sitting reserve in MCI with a 121 carrier and collecting your 70 hour guarantee, if it were not for Mesa and "Air Big Mess", you would be sitting at your local FBO and begging for $10 per hour to ride around in the right seat of a Cessna 150 teaching kids to fly for the next 1500 hours or 2 years before you would be competitive at any other airline. If management indeed "pulled their heads out of their a$$es, the smart move would simply be to furlough the excess pilots like yourself. Is that what you want? Mgmt. probably realizes that the overstaffing is just a temporary condition (remember seat locks start disappearing next year) and do not wish to furlough unnecessarily. Even with a CFI rating, all that 500 hours is probably going to get you is an exciting and rewarding job in the sanitation or food service industries. AFter you have been at AMW a couple of more years, maybe you will have the right to gripe a little more. Until then....remember....sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees!

Can't very well furlough the excess beech guys, because they would have to furlough about 200-250 CRJ/ERJ guys first, and Mesa is already short staffed in that area.

 

[Tooslow]

khsjt, how much did you make last year at mesa?

 

[wntsouthwest]

HYDROPLANE....landed with the brakes on!

 

[GateGirl]

whoa when you said excursion i thought maybe they went sight seeing on the runway. i was getting excited... (thought maybe they graduated from riddle) none the less an incursion for mesa/midwest is always interesting to see