MESA or JB

[CitationLover]

Ok you can't really work a calculator so I will not take financial advice from you. If writing of interest is so good at 4% why not write it off at 12%. Would you not be sheltering more from taxes? Let me tell you how a write off actually works

You make 80k
You pay 10k in mortgage interest

Your taxable income is now 70k.

You are in 25% tax bracket

You save $2500 in taxes

If your house is paid off yes I pay the government $2500 leaving you $7500 to invest any way you like that you are not paying the bank. I fear for the pensions you consult for...

You clearly don't understand but here goes......

Decision one: pay off $250k mortgage
Decision two: keep paying 4% mortgage and invest $250k

Did you miss the part about investing the payoff amount instead of paying off your house? On one transaction you are getting 4% for your money (paying off mortgage) on the other transaction you simply need to beat a 4% return to stay ahead. I think 4% is reasonable to beat. The tax savings are gravy.

Did you also miss the point about liquidity? Say the day after you pay off your house you get hit by a bus and need money fast for bills. How's that house going to do it for you? Can you sell your house in a week? Month? Year? If you instead saved the money, it's as simple as withdrawing money from a bank.

How about but those poor souls who paid off their house in 2007? What a great return on your money that was! It's only worth 33% less of what it was then and it's even more illiquid now than then. What a great combination!

 

[CitationLover]

Btw chairman the above is referred to as an interest rate swap. You're swapping a fixed interest rate for a variable one.

Ignore a house, say you get a 0% loan on a $20k car and you have $20k in cash. Do you pay cash for the car and get 0%? Or do you take that money and do with it whatever you want and try and beat 0%? You just got a 60 month float of $20k.

Obviously the higher the mortgage rate is the harder the justification is. Using your 12% example, probably unlikely you will beat 12% in the market and thus it makes no financial sense, you pay off the mortgage.

 

[Chairman]

You clearly don't understand but here goes......

Decision one: pay off $250k mortgage
Decision two: keep paying 4% mortgage and invest $250k

Did you miss the part about investing the payoff amount instead of paying off your house? On one transaction you are getting 4% for your money (paying off mortgage) on the other transaction you simply need to beat a 4% return to stay ahead. I think 4% is reasonable to beat. The tax savings are gravy.

Did you also miss the point about liquidity? Say the day after you pay off your house you get hit by a bus and need money fast for bills. How's that house going to do it for you? Can you sell your house in a week? Month? Year? If you instead saved the money, it's as simple as withdrawing money from a bank.

How about but those poor souls who paid off their house in 2007? What a great return on your money that was! It's only worth 33% less of what it was then and it's even more illiquid now than then. What a great combination!

Those poor souls who had there house paid off in 2007 are most likely sleeping better than those struggling to get out from there under water house. And how did those people who didn't pay off there house do in the market between 2007 and today about even. Plus if you are not going to leave the money alone for 5 years it should not be tied in an investment that is what a 6-12 month emergency fund is for. If that is what your getting at then I agree with you. But as a someone who has found himself on the unemployment line more than ones I can say with out doubt having no debt works better and more people are out of work than in a hospital recovering from being hit by a bus. The point you are missing with your math is taking risk into account. If your house was paid off would you borrow 200k to invest.....Same difference and maybe you would but I think most people would not. I am not saying not invest I have funded my 401ks and IRA's for both my wife and I but we do it as we aggressively paid down the house. As for the tax write off you can invest much more with a paid off house that without and if you can guarantee greater than 4% each and every year you are in good shape....However no one can guarantee that unless you look at the average over a long term not just any given year. And that money I invest and leave alone

 

[CitationLover]

Those poor souls who had there house paid off in 2007 are most likely sleeping better than those struggling to get out from there under water house. And how did those people who didn't pay off there house do in the market between 2007 and today about even. Plus if you are not going to leave the money alone for 5 years it should not be tied in an investment that is what a 6-12 month emergency fund is for. If that is what your getting at then I agree with you. But as a someone who has found himself on the unemployment line more than ones I can say with out doubt having no debt works better and more people are out of work than in a hospital recovering from being hit by a bus. The point you are missing with your math is taking risk into account. If your house was paid off would you borrow 200k to invest.....Same difference and maybe you would but I think most people would not. I am not saying not invest I have funded my 401ks and IRA's for both my wife and I but we do it as we aggressively paid down the house. As for the tax write off you can invest much more with a paid off house that without and if you can guarantee greater than 4% each and every year you are in good shape....However no one can guarantee that unless you look at the average over a long term not just any given year. And that money I invest and leave alone

Investing money involves risk, sure it does. So does buying your house off and holding an illiquid asset with substantial appreciation risk. My math completely takes risk into it and in my opinion gives you better cash flow management.

Agree completely with being diligent over the long term, that's the only way you can succeed. I'll take the history of the S&P with an 8.80% rate of return since its creation versus 4% any day.

Don't take my word for it, google Ric Edelman. He's been rated by Barron's as one if the best personal financial advisers in the country since 2004. Read what he thinks on the subject.

 

[dhc8fo]

Ignore a house, say you get a 0% loan on a $20k car and you have $20k in cash. Do you pay cash for the car and get 0%? Or do you take that money and do with it whatever you want and try and beat 0%? You just got a 60 month float of $20k.

No. Because if you had the ability to pay in cash you wouldn't be paying the same price as you would by financing it at 0%....therefore you are paying less upfront and now you have more money to put somewhere useful. You said it yourself earlier...they will get theirs one way or the other.

 

[say again]

I'm sorry JB turned you down. You can reapply after a period of time though. Where do you work currently?

Hahahaha, the infamous "you got turned down" bs. Sorry pal, you're 100% wrong. Have absolutely no desire to work for JB, never apllied and never will. Im quite happy where I am. Better pay, schedule, beni's, etc. :beer:

 

[Smarta$$]

Hahahaha, the infamous "you got turned down" bs. Sorry pal, you're 100% wrong. Have absolutely no desire to work for JB, never apllied and never will. Im quite happy where I am. Better pay, schedule, beni's, etc. :beer:

Sure, and where do you work?

 

[say again]

Sure, and where do you work?

Im 100% sure of what I said, whether you believe it or not. Your opinion is of no concern of mine. I fly 91. Enjoy your mighty 190.

 

[Smarta$$]

Im 100% sure of what I said, whether you believe it or not. Your opinion is of no concern of mine. I fly 91. Enjoy your mighty 190.

Actually I do enjoy the 190. Good luck to you sir, sounds AMAZING!

 

[Lake Alice]

You can't call the 190 "mighty" unless it's in the context of a "mighty piece of sh!t".

In the future reference JB and the 190 in the proper context.
Thank you.

 

[say again]

Actually I do enjoy the 190. Good luck to you sir, sounds AMAZING!

Not amazing, but a much better fit for me. I personally dont believe JB has anything to offer me. Personal choice Ive made, so need for u to take it personally. Glad you enjoy the 190, and best of luck to u and everyone else there. There is plenty of room for improvement, and I hope it happens.

 

[fifty30retard]

Not amazing, but a much better fit for me. I personally dont believe JB has anything to offer me. Personal choice Ive made, so need for u to take it personally. Glad you enjoy the 190, and best of luck to u and everyone else there. There is plenty of room for improvement, and I hope it happens.

There are no monetary fixes coming, just robbing Peter to pay Paul. CFO stated "none whatsoever" for increased pilot costs at OCT 2011 earnings call. Hope left town.

 

[BeachBummer]

Actually I do enjoy the 190. Good luck to you sir, sounds AMAZING!

It probably is amazing. The yellow brick road doesn't end a an airline for some. I know it's a hard concept, but jetBlue isn't the holy grail for some either. Don't be a jerk.

 

[Smarta$$]

It probably is amazing. The yellow brick road doesn't end a an airline for some. I know it's a hard concept, but jetBlue isn't the holy grail for some either. Don't be a jerk.

Read his many posts in several threads about JB. He has been a jerk and has had many nasty comments about JB, a company he doesn't work for, and knows less than he thinks he does about.

You cannot simply take my comment in the context of his few posts here.

 

[fifty30retard]

Read his many posts in several threads about JB. He has been a jerk and has had many nasty comments about JB, a company he doesn't work for, and knows less than he thinks he does about.

You cannot simply take my comment in the context of his few posts here.

Your company just rewarded no voters by stating "none whatsoever" in increased costs from the election victory. You've been had, what else is there to say. Bluecare Plus/EyeMed/DeltaDental = $740.00 a month. You've empowered a bean counting monster, and you're mad at me? That there is funny.