Mesa Accident in ROA

[Lequip]

The No Go Around Brief WAS NOT made tongue-in-cheek as you imply. She briefed that since Night and IFR departures weren't allowed on the runway they were landing on, the Go Around would not be an option. Don't try to defend this idiot. She was totally clueless as to what she was doing.

 

[LJDRVR]

Wow,

Maybe someday I'll be as smart and talented as you folks who have aviation all figured out and would never be involved in an accident. What's really sad about this discussion is that very few people have tried to contribute anything constructive. There are issues involved with this accident that are a threat to all of us in this industry. Lack of assertivness, inadequate training, lack of integrity. (Not reporting something that we know we should.)

We COULD be discussing these issues, and how to avoid finding ourselves in a situation such as this crew did. Instead, we act like a bunch of gossipy old women. (I'll point the finger at myself, I've done it too.) So, I'll make an attempt to steer this thread into more useful territory:

LACK OF INTEGRITY (both individual and cultural)

Who HONESTLY would have reported this to MX? A real bone-jarring hard landing (The worst you've ever felt)where a post-flight inspection revealed no visible damages. For those of you who would have reported it, Two questions:

-Why?

-What about your organizational culture supports being able to fess-up about an honest mistake without losing your job?

For those of you who would have just gone to the hotel, also two questions:

-Why?

-What about your organization's culture or your personnal situation would have to change in order for you to feel OK reporting something like this?

I'll go first. There were times earlier in my career where I would have said nothing. This was less a function of culture than it was a personnal level of maturity. There were certain times in my past where having the job and proving myself were so important that I couldn't imagine doing anything to jeopradize that. I'm fortunate though in that having made some mistakes that all turned out OK, (Nothing was broke and/or I didn't get caught) I since developed a thicker skin. I have an attitude that I love flying, but I'm only going to do it the right way. If I lose my job over that, so what. I've also discoverd both in aviation and life, that if I'm honest about a mistake I made, and fess up with a good attitude, I've NEVER regretted it. Not once. I haven't said anything about culture because for me, it doesn't matter. I'm going to try to do the right thing regardless. That having been said, a company that takes pains to foster an open and communicative environment where people are encouraged to do the right thing, is much less likely to have an accident like this go un-reported.

So, anybody else want to chime in? It's a lot easier and more fun to throw around the gossip and hyperbole.

 

[100LL... Again!]

You can add "lack of airmanship" to the above list

Inadequate training? I don't think so. A poor workman blames his tools.

 

[norskman2]

You can add "lack of airmanship" to the above list

Inadequate training? I don't think so. A poor workman blames his tools.

There's no excuse for the pilot flying the approach the way they did -- too slow, etc.

But remember there were two people in the cockpit. If, as it appears, the crew improperly briefed the approach, the CPT ignored low speed warnings from the FO, and the FO did not assert themselves when it became clear the aircraft was in danger and being operated far outside of company operating procedures, then there clearly were some CRM issues that need to be addressed in training to ensure it can't happen again.

Every accident should be an opportunity to improve the system. Whether the CPT is to blame or not, CRM clearly broke down.

 

[acaTerry]

Also, as stated in the NTSB report, she pulled the thrust to IDLE at 300 feet, and then put BOTH hands on the yoke to pull up. What was she thinking? This aint no CE182!

Swept wing + low speed + idle thrust + heavy back pressure = accident. Math is easy.