Mesa Accident in ROA

[Chosen One]

What????? Gee, what a surprise a female pipes in and defends this incompetence.

Dude, relax. She wasn't talking about the Mesa accident, you bonehead. Read a few posts back, the one that starts off "I recall a Shuttle landing much like that."

 

[MrsSgtMajUSMC]

Dude, relax. She wasn't talking about the Mesa accident, you bonehead. Read a few posts back, the one that starts off "I recall a Shuttle landing much like that."


__________________


Thank you............ geez its bonehead comments like:

Originally posted by nitrogen
What????? Gee, what a surprise a female pipes in and defends this incompetence.

That I often say. NO UTERUS NO OPINION............do your homework....... read.........Thanks Chosen One.........

 

[Dash8]

As clarification, the FO who passed away from breast cancer was the one who did the walkaround (before sunrise, on a not so well lit ramp, I've been told) on the following morning. She was not the one involved in the accident. That FO has recently upgraded to ERJ Capt.

was that fo a dark haired girl, from riddle-prc? knew a girl Back when i was at prc that i heard passed on from cancer in the past year, wonder if it was the same one, was sorry to hear that, seemed like a nice, albeit quite gal,
may she rest in peace

 

[Saabslime]

the FO who passed away from breast cancer was the one who did the walkaround (before sunrise, on a not so well lit ramp, I've been told) on the following morning.

God rest her soul but ever heard of a flashlight???

 

[91100 100 set]

Dash8

Dash, I think I know who you might be thinking of, the PRC gal. I think you might have the Mesa FO confused with another gal who was employed at Mesaba who passed away from cancer. The time frame that she and you were out there is about right...

 

[Dash8]

oooh yeah thats right, i remember she was at mesaba...my bad...lisa, right? that was her name?

 

[nitrogen]

OOOPs

Mrs Mrs,

Now that hurts.

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, you get one free kick to the scrotum for that one.

But, I get to close my eyes first. At least it'll knock my foot out of my mouth.

Dude, relax. She wasn't talking about the Mesa accident, you bonehead. Read a few posts back, the one that starts off "I recall a Shuttle landing much like that."


__________________


Thank you............ geez its bonehead comments like:

Originally posted by nitrogen
What????? Gee, what a surprise a female pipes in and defends this incompetence.

That I often say. NO UTERUS NO OPINION............do your homework....... read.........Thanks Chosen One.........

 

[jetfueljunkey]

Hey Clipper...do you know her instructor? He actually did not do anything with her untill after the training was complete....As for the domestic abuse charge that was totally B.S. as well. His wife was pissed off about the affair, lied to the police about the abuse just to get even. And as for the FO, She is now a captain for Mesa! It was the F.O. who flew the plane out the next morning who died of cancer! Before you go spouting your mouth off please get the facts straight! As For The infamouos captain though, she is gone from Mesa forever.

how she got through training! It was the old "Instructor with a hard on" deal. She was doing poorly and resorted to boinking the instructor (later fired for domestic abuse) to get extra sims late at night etc. Later called the guys wife to fill her in on the details. Hormone boy also was her acting FO on her type ride and probably covered up an error or two. The DE was impressed by her ample bosom, I am sure. This whole incident was a collection of smaller mistakes not caught in time. The Captain was widely disliked for her abrasiveness, she also bragged that she upgrade from the 1900 as an FO, like we were supposed to be impressed as opposed to shocked. Everyone knew she was an accident waiting to happen...and it did. The best part of the story is that she tried to sue Mesa for improper training and a few other things. FO was a good gal, but a bit passive when matched up with the peroxide know-it-all. She did pass away from cancer while the investigation was ongoing, Mesa wouldn't pay her death benefit...no suprise there, JO needed another motorcycle.....

 

[Lequip]

Where did the Captain go? Was she fired? Anybody who briefs that a go around is not an option clearly has no business in the left seat of a 121 cockpit. This chick has a ton to learn.

 

[Stinkbug]

"Go around isn't an option"

Has it occurred to anyone else that perhaps the captain made this comment tounge-in-cheek? You know...last leg of a long day, everyone's tired and ready to get to the hotel, so the captain jokes, "you know...go around isn't an option!"

I barely knew the girl, and I certainly am not defending her actions before or after the incident, but so much has been made of her statement about going around. I've just always thought it was entirely possible that it was intended as a joke. I mean, does anyone think it's really likely that an airline pilot would say something like this and mean it...it doesn't pass the common sense test.

 

[Lequip]

The No Go Around Brief WAS NOT made tongue-in-cheek as you imply. She briefed that since Night and IFR departures weren't allowed on the runway they were landing on, the Go Around would not be an option. Don't try to defend this idiot. She was totally clueless as to what she was doing.

 

[LJDRVR]

Wow,

Maybe someday I'll be as smart and talented as you folks who have aviation all figured out and would never be involved in an accident. What's really sad about this discussion is that very few people have tried to contribute anything constructive. There are issues involved with this accident that are a threat to all of us in this industry. Lack of assertivness, inadequate training, lack of integrity. (Not reporting something that we know we should.)

We COULD be discussing these issues, and how to avoid finding ourselves in a situation such as this crew did. Instead, we act like a bunch of gossipy old women. (I'll point the finger at myself, I've done it too.) So, I'll make an attempt to steer this thread into more useful territory:

LACK OF INTEGRITY (both individual and cultural)

Who HONESTLY would have reported this to MX? A real bone-jarring hard landing (The worst you've ever felt)where a post-flight inspection revealed no visible damages. For those of you who would have reported it, Two questions:

-Why?

-What about your organizational culture supports being able to fess-up about an honest mistake without losing your job?

For those of you who would have just gone to the hotel, also two questions:

-Why?

-What about your organization's culture or your personnal situation would have to change in order for you to feel OK reporting something like this?

I'll go first. There were times earlier in my career where I would have said nothing. This was less a function of culture than it was a personnal level of maturity. There were certain times in my past where having the job and proving myself were so important that I couldn't imagine doing anything to jeopradize that. I'm fortunate though in that having made some mistakes that all turned out OK, (Nothing was broke and/or I didn't get caught) I since developed a thicker skin. I have an attitude that I love flying, but I'm only going to do it the right way. If I lose my job over that, so what. I've also discoverd both in aviation and life, that if I'm honest about a mistake I made, and fess up with a good attitude, I've NEVER regretted it. Not once. I haven't said anything about culture because for me, it doesn't matter. I'm going to try to do the right thing regardless. That having been said, a company that takes pains to foster an open and communicative environment where people are encouraged to do the right thing, is much less likely to have an accident like this go un-reported.

So, anybody else want to chime in? It's a lot easier and more fun to throw around the gossip and hyperbole.

 

[100LL... Again!]

You can add "lack of airmanship" to the above list

Inadequate training? I don't think so. A poor workman blames his tools.

 

[norskman2]

You can add "lack of airmanship" to the above list

Inadequate training? I don't think so. A poor workman blames his tools.

There's no excuse for the pilot flying the approach the way they did -- too slow, etc.

But remember there were two people in the cockpit. If, as it appears, the crew improperly briefed the approach, the CPT ignored low speed warnings from the FO, and the FO did not assert themselves when it became clear the aircraft was in danger and being operated far outside of company operating procedures, then there clearly were some CRM issues that need to be addressed in training to ensure it can't happen again.

Every accident should be an opportunity to improve the system. Whether the CPT is to blame or not, CRM clearly broke down.

 

[acaTerry]

Also, as stated in the NTSB report, she pulled the thrust to IDLE at 300 feet, and then put BOTH hands on the yoke to pull up. What was she thinking? This aint no CE182!

Swept wing + low speed + idle thrust + heavy back pressure = accident. Math is easy.