MDA/CHQ Transition

[FlyingDawg]

Here's what I don't get. Many of these guys left regional airlines to go to Airways. Many left a very secure job with good seniority. However the additional money was just too much to turn down. Didn't anyone realize that they were taking a chance? Giving up security and seniority to be at the bottom of someone elses list and have the potential to make more money.

I on the otherhand, weighed the money vs security, and security won out. Should I get punished for making the right decision by losing seniority and lower pay all these years?

 

[LearLove]

Time to throw myself to the wolves...There is just not an easy solution to this. I understand that the MDA guys have been through a lot. But, as Sunchaser was saying, this industry is a killer. It's all about being in the right place at the right time. If you had a choice six years ago between Eagle or CHQ, where do you go? How about all the guys that left the regionals in the late 90s for a major? Tough break, but do they come back to CHQ with super seniroity? It's not that we don't care about how much another pilot has been through, it's just that this is a brutally objective industy...no room for subjective bargaining. Several people here are out to make CHQ guys look like greedy kids. But I think just about everyone in this mess is acting that way. (yes, including CHQ)

Why should CHQ give up anything? Maybe I'm missing something, but this is not a merger. US is not selling the MDA aircraft for grins, they need cash...and REP has it. So REP gives cash and also has to "give up" something for the privilage???


This is the heart of why CHQ pilots are disgusted by the "super Seniority" argument. The implication by this is: "we came from Airways, so this is a step down for us. Thus, we deserve better schedules, bases, etc..." Maybe this isn't the case, but that's sure how it looks.

It's obviously a very emotional issue, with great reason. Just realize that everyone is putting equal spin on their side of the argument. I hope the MDA guys find a FAIR solution. (maybe not SS, but something fair) AND, I hope CHQ guys realize that the flying done by these aircraft is courtesy of the Airways system. Just have a little respect in both directions, right?

Nice post, much better than most on the "other side".

"Just have a little respect in both directions, right?" - Something i've been trying to say and remember guys there is enough flying 70 - 100 seat to go around, why fight.

No wolves here, atleast you didn't respond with:


"Oh and Lear, go back to ALG and your DASH-8's..."

which btw OMP I would do in a HEARTBEAT!!!!. I miss the dash, the friends and contract over there very much. I really don't understand whats wrong with that guy.

 

[LXApilot]

This is why the mainline guys do not respect our pilot group...

Here's an idea...

When someone asks you what airline you work for, you say Republic Airways. Now let's try that all together class... R E P U B L I C. And one more time, just to be sure we've all got it now. R E P U B L I C. Great! It's all the same company, nobody deserves any more or less respect, nor the alleged 'evil eye' anywhere on the property. There is an old phrase I think you should all get used to, and it is "This is the business we've chosen." You knew the risks/rewards when you got hired with your company, and you knew the contract. Do me a favor and read over the book 'Hard Landing' and 'Flying the Line Vol.1 & 2' . Then if you have the audacity to come back and whine more after you have become enlightened as to the sacrifices and concessions of those who made this profession what it is, I may listen for a few seconds out of respect before backhanding you. When your company is purchased/absorbed then you are entitled to ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and should be thankful when you are allowed to keep your job. How about we all start playing on the same team? Managements divide and conquer strategy will be fast at work next October when that good old contract comes up for ammendment and renegotiation. We better have this all figured out by then, because there are more serious concerns that need to be addressed. Ok, let me have it!

 

[stb]

This is the heart of why CHQ pilots are disgusted by the "super Seniority" argument. The implication by this is: "we came from Airways, so this is a step down for us. Thus, we deserve better schedules, bases, etc..." Maybe this isn't the case, but that's sure how it looks.

The lawsuit filed on behalf of the MDA pilots is for many reasons. Getting bought out by REP again is a small piece of the puzzle.
The major fight isn't with REP.
Even if 100% of the jobs were given to the MDA pilots, MAYBE 50% would go.

The AmericaWest pilots should get interested in this fiasco or should I say future AmericaWest pilots.

 

[Traumahawk]

Here's an idea...

When someone asks you what airline you work for, you say Republic Airways. Now let's try that all together class... R E P U B L I C. And one more time, just to be sure we've all got it now. R E P U B L I C. Great! It's all the same company, nobody deserves any more or less respect, nor the alleged 'evil eye' anywhere on the property. There is an old phrase I think you should all get used to, and it is "This is the business we've chosen." You knew the risks/rewards when you got hired with your company, and you knew the contract. Do me a favor and read over the book 'Hard Landing' and 'Flying the Line Vol.1 & 2' . Then if you have the audacity to come back and whine more after you have become enlightened as to the sacrifices and concessions of those who made this profession what it is, I may listen for a few seconds out of respect before backhanding you. When your company is purchased/absorbed then you are entitled to ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and should be thankful when you are allowed to keep your job. How about we all start playing on the same team? Managements divide and conquer strategy will be fast at work next October when that good old contract comes up for ammendment and renegotiation. We better have this all figured out by then, because there are more serious concerns that need to be addressed. Ok, let me have it!

Nice post....but lets get to the biggest question of all.

Who had Franky Pentangeli killed?

 

[Strikefinder]

Again, we do not have to offer ANY MDA/USAirways pilot a job let alone to be locked into the left seat or to have the FOs start at the top of the FO pay scale.

This isn't entirely true. LOA91, the agreement with the MDA guys, states that they are entitled to J4J if an "asset sale" takes place at MDA. The MDA pilots are calling this a "change in control", which I don't believe holds water by the definition of such in LOA91.

Now, the CHQ/REP pilots may argue that the previous J4J agreement that was signed with the company does not currently apply, but in order to meet the terms of the agreement with the MDA pilots, it's either an "asset sale" (which is attached to J4J) or it's a "change in control" (which triggers Allegheny/Mohawk). If the CHQ pilots somehow nullify their acceptance of the J4J protocol, I believe the MDA pilots could feasibly stop the transaction, and Republic would get nothing. Having read through it, I don't see any reason why they would be able to nullify the agreement in place in LOA4. No matter what the rhetoric around here, I don't think the CHQ pilots have any real say in what is "offered", since it's all been previously outlined and agreed to.

J4J is the baseline. To get the airplanes, there needs to be J4J. Again, looking through LOA91, I don't see how Republic is gaining board control of another airline or outstanding shares of common stock, particularly since MDA is not being operated as a separate airline, so only that language applies.

In any case, I'm sure everybody will be angry at each other for years, and going to work will continue to spiral downhill as more grumpiness and malcontent spreads. The J4J pilots we have now are, in my experience, a top-notch group who adds a tremendous amount to the quality of our pilot group, and I'll be glad to see anybody that comes here.

 

[generaltso]

I guess a judge will decide if this is an "asset sale" or a "change in control". I think it is both, but I think first and foremost it is an asset sale. USair is selling these planes because they need cash... that is the bottom line.

If the arbitrator rules that it is a asset sale, the planes will come over under J4J terms. However, J4J states that the pilots will get ONE offer of employment under J4J. Supposedly, MDA pilots have already been offered and most of them rejected it. Under the J4J agreement, no second chance?

I guess the MDA pilots did not find the offer appealing. I think it was a fair deal, besides the 2 year training contract (reduced to 1 year?) and the double occupancy.

Another issue is the wholly owned pilots that fly for MDA but are not on the USair seniority list. These guys should NOT have been offered a position under J4J... were they? And how many of these guys are there?

Finally what about recall rights in the potential America West/USair merger? I thought I read somewhere that if you come over on J4J that you will not be able to be recalled to the new company. If so, that is b.s.... any comments on that?

Hopefully a MDA guy can chime in on these items. Thanks.

 

[FR8mastr]

I guess a judge will decide if this is an "asset sale" or a "change in control". I think it is both, but I think first and foremost it is an asset sale. USair is selling these planes because they need cash... that is the bottom line.

True, but they are also selling the sim. the door trainer, and all other parts associated with the 170



[/QUOTE]If the arbitrator rules that it is a asset sale, the planes will come over under J4J terms. However, J4J states that the pilots will get ONE offer of employment under J4J. Supposedly, MDA pilots have already been offered and most of them rejected it. Under the J4J agreement, no second chance?[/QUOTE]


The reason we have been offered many chances as this is not a straight J4J and also Republic needs the already trained and typed guys to do the proving runs. More proof the companies will interpret contracts at will to suit their needs



[/QUOTE]Another issue is the wholly owned pilots that fly for MDA but are not on the USair seniority list. These guys should NOT have been offered a position under J4J... were they? And how many of these guys are there?[/QUOTE]


Incorrect all pilots at MDA are on the US Airways Seniority list. there are about 100 former WO pilots there now.



[/QUOTE]Finally what about recall rights in the potential America West/USair merger? I thought I read somewhere that if you come over on J4J that you will not be able to be recalled to the new company. If so, that is b.s.... any comments on that?[/QUOTE]


Not true anyone on the US Airways seniority list will be called back to the merged airline in seniority order, this order still has to be negotiated with the America West folks.

 

[generaltso]

Incorrect all pilots at MDA are on the US Airways Seniority list. there are about 100 former WO pilots there now.

So the pilots that went from ALG to MDA are on the Airways seniority list? How did that happen?

 

[FR8mastr]

Basically it comes down to ALPA rules. Any pilot working for US AIRWAYS has to be on the seniority list. the original plan was for MDA to be another WO and in that case we would not have had the numbers until we flowed all the way to Airways. We all know that did not happen. Because MDA does not really exist and the 170 division is US AIRWAYS, the WO pilots are now Airways pilots. I hope that made sense.