Major Airline vs NetJets

[flyipilot]

Be careful who you throw rocks at. It wasn't that long ago that NJ made pilots pay double the cost of a 737 type for a job that paid A LOT less than SWA. Also, If you think your pay could never be cut at NJ, you're living in a dreamworld. Paycuts can happen to any body, at any time in any occupation.

I am not throwing rocks...just stating facts. Yes, I am very aware that paycuts can happen anywhere, but when NJ was getting a new contract with raises during one of the worst oil crisis in recent years, every single major airline was cutting pay, benefits, and work rules. I did work for an sirline that charged me to work there...ACA and I like most foolish, hungry, and new pilots took the bait and paid for training. They dropped it a year later because they had to be more competitive. If pilots would take a stand and stop applying to SWA, they would have NO choice but to drop the pay for hire policy. Shame on their own MEC for allowing it to go on and on and on...but hey they had to pay so why not make everyone else pay. I happen to enjoy flying on SWA and am not in any way bashing the company on any other front than their pilot hiring parctice. But, this is a major reason I would not work there but a long as we keep blindly feeding them...they keep laughing to the training center. When does it ever end? When do we ever start to look at our careers as professional as a doctor, lawyer, or skilled labor? Do we keep taking the jobs at any pay rate? At any price? Mesa, Virgin America (provided DOT caves in to a few SFO lost souls), Skybus.....who will be next...how about we start an airline where we charge the pilot to fly the airbus? hmmmm...$65.00 an hour seems fair since they can build up their needed 1300 PIC turbine time just to go pay for a 737 type and apply to the dream job at SWA. Just might work. We can give them a great benefit package...(for a small billable fee), and give them a monthly guarantee of 90 hours...(min airbus rental). I know Orenstein would be drooling..just dont tell Branson...oppps...he is not really involved with VA...

 

[FamilyGuy]

I did work for an sirline that charged me to work there...ACA and I like most foolish, hungry, and new pilots took the bait and paid for training. They dropped it a year later because they had to be more competitive. If pilots would take a stand and stop applying to SWA, they would have NO choice but to drop the pay for hire policy. Shame on their own MEC for allowing it to go on and on and on...but hey they had to pay so why not make everyone else pay. I happen to enjoy flying on SWA and am not in any way bashing the company on any other front than their pilot hiring parctice. But, this is a major reason I would not work there but a long as we keep blindly feeding them...they keep laughing to the training center. When does it ever end? When do we ever start to look at our careers as professional as a doctor, lawyer, or skilled labor?

Every doctor or lawyer that I've met paid for their degree.

Every doctor or lawyer that I've met succeeded or failed based on their skills, not what some third party bargaining group negotiated for them. If they screwed up or had a poor track record they didnt get clients and income. If they do good work and establish a great reputation then they get more clients and raise their rates accordingly.

 

[flyipilot]

Every doctor or lawyer that I've met paid for their degree.

Every doctor or lawyer that I've met succeeded or failed based on their skills, not what some third party bargaining group negotiated for them. If they screwed up or had a poor track record they didnt get clients and income. If they do good work and establish a great reputation then they get more clients and raise their rates accordingly.

That is exactly my point. I paid for my Private thru ATP...and college, just as the doctor and lawyer did. I do know of one hospital in the country that charges a Dr. to come work for them. None. I wish we as pilots would be based on our individual skills as well, we are not. Or at least the union guys are not. I flew many a "fair" pilot who slid through the system only because he had a union. I know people who worked where I did would agree. I would have no problem being judged as the professional I am; as is a doctor or lawyer. My only point was that airlines are notorious for gouging and treating their core employees (pilots, FA's, mechanics, rampers, agents) like crap. They charge for uniforms, McDonalds and In and Out do not, they charge you to fly on your own airline..stand by!, they even used to charge a fee to apply for them. The application processing fee! Some still use this method by making you go through a paid application site. I am very proud I work for one of the few aviation businesses that did not charge to work here, paid for my uniform, and it was free to apply. The airlines will have to see changes in the future as we run out of qualified pilots, yes...even for SWA. Then they will have to pay you for the type!

 

[gunfyter]

Doctors have the best union in the world... the AMA....

Keeps the admissions to med school down thereby eliminating competition.

 

[Diesel]

hey familycuunt is back yipppe. Great more unbiased spin from the company. Whoopdie friggin do.

Most doctor fees are now set by hmo's. Thus why you see a lot of doctors gettting out of specialized medicine and into general practice. Now we're talking about the orthopods the ones that have skills such as surgery much like we have as flying a plane.

Most doctors actually do have a 3rd party negotiate a fee. Meet the AMA. They have set it by limiting the number of doctors coming in the door. Ever notice that there aren't any cameras, voice recorders or even alcohol tests in the operating room? Yup thank the AMA. But diesel if they had those things there wouldn't be this question on what a doctor did during an operation that went wrong. They could be like pilots where we could discect every little move they make. wait here comes the AMA. nope that idea is dead.

Doctors have the key that pilots do not. From day one they are told they are special, they are smarter than the rest, that nobody should question their authority, that they are god and decide on life and death decisions. Ever notice that even the the nurses run the shop the doctors rule with an iron fist and while a nurse might be right a doctor is reminded of his training, you're number 1, you're the best, nobody can question your judgment. They know their skills are in demand even if they do poorly.

Pilots on the other hand will sell out their own mother to fly a shiney new jet. Look at the regionals. The job of a pilot has been micromanaged by so many people that it no longer is a job of authority and command decision. People like familyguy and others think well i can drive a car i'm sure i can do a pilots job. But you'll never see anybody actually go get the training and sacrifices to get to the position where we are flying.

Man those pilots are spoiled, i could do that job, i just don't have the time to get trained or sacrifice flying a freighter through the ice. I could talk like a pilot on a weboard but have no real idea what it is they do. Ahhh the dumming down of the profession.

 

[xjjetdog]

This statement is so true.

I too will put NetJets QOL up against any airline, anytime. There are so many positive intangibles here that you would have to experience them yourself. I don't have the words to explain.

Coming from the 121 world, I was a bit skeptical at first. NetJets and the Airlines are two completely different animals, it's hard to compare them on a level playing field. As far as QOL, I also agree NetJets is far better than any airline. The worst thing about the job is airlining on an AIRLINE. When in a crowded terminal where everyone seems miserable, watching other pilots grab airport food, watching other pilots trying to jumpseat, watching pilots and passengers being herded like cattle, watching pilots get the release to an airport they've been to a million times, I just think to myself "I'm glad I don't have to deal with this mess everyday I come to work." That's just one aspect where the QOL is better at NetJets. Just one.

 

[johnsonrod]

I've heard that a bunch of Jet Blue pilots left for NJA. Is that true? Probably not happy with the E190 pay...

 

[FamilyGuy]

LOL....That didn't take long.

flyipilot - in response to your question why pilots are not perceived as professionals like Doctors, Lawyers etc...I give you Exhibit A.

hey familycuunt is back yipppe. Great more unbiased spin from the company. Whoopdie friggin do.

If that doesn't convince you then just look at his other gem from yesterday:

I got berated from a United captain for not wearing my "cover" while standing in line at applebees in the terminal. He went on about in this time we should show profesionalism and that without my "cover" I was not displaying that. All i kept thinking was WTF is a cover. Then my partner turned around and said, "hats are for losers." you would have thought the guy got punched in the gut.

Later that same day we are still waiting on our flight. Everytime the airline was announcing it was delayed we're smiling bigger and bigger. So this united captain comes up to us and says whats the delay, i've got to get to such and such to fly a 777. Then points to the other pilot who was supposed to be his reserve guy on the same trip. Then told us to watch his seat and walked off.

Eventually he came back and told us, "you look like some enterprising young men why don't you hop up there and get our clearance so we can get out of here." My partner who was 1-0 for the day told the guy we weren't enterprising and we definetly weren't go getters so therefor we aren't going to get the clearance anytime soon. Had a good chuckle over that one too.

In fact, flightinfo is filled with great examples like this. Diesel has the attitude, bearing, and demeanor of a truck driver, so it should come as no surprise that he is perceived as such.

As long as the pilot community lets the militants and jihadists represent them, then your perception in the eyes of the public will suffer.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Doctors have the best union in the world... the AMA....

Keeps the admissions to med school down thereby eliminating competition.

Most doctor fees are now set by hmo's. Thus why you see a lot of doctors gettting out of specialized medicine and into general practice. Now we're talking about the orthopods the ones that have skills such as surgery much like we have as flying a plane.

Most doctors actually do have a 3rd party negotiate a fee. Meet the AMA. They have set it by limiting the number of doctors coming in the door. Ever notice that there aren't any cameras, voice recorders or even alcohol tests in the operating room? Yup thank the AMA. But diesel if they had those things there wouldn't be this question on what a doctor did during an operation that went wrong. They could be like pilots where we could discect every little move they make. wait here comes the AMA. nope that idea is dead.

Doctors have the key that pilots do not. From day one they are told they are special, they are smarter than the rest, that nobody should question their authority, that they are god and decide on life and death decisions. Ever notice that even the the nurses run the shop the doctors rule with an iron fist and while a nurse might be right a doctor is reminded of his training, you're number 1, you're the best, nobody can question your judgment. They know their skills are in demand even if they do poorly.

Pilots on the other hand will sell out their own mother to fly a shiney new jet. Look at the regionals. The job of a pilot has been micromanaged by so many people that it no longer is a job of authority and command decision. People like familyguy and others think well i can drive a car i'm sure i can do a pilots job. But you'll never see anybody actually go get the training and sacrifices to get to the position where we are flying.

Man those pilots are spoiled, i could do that job, i just don't have the time to get trained or sacrifice flying a freighter through the ice. I could talk like a pilot on a weboard but have no real idea what it is they do. Ahhh the dumming down of the profession.

Where do you guys get this idea that the AMA limits the number of doctors in the US?

The AMA no more limits the number of Doctors than the American Bar Association limits the number of lawyers in the US. (And I think we can all agree there are too many of them around)

Here's the latest census data I could find on the number of Doctors, Lawyers, and Pilots in the US:

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/labor_table597.pdf

For those who dont care to read through all the occupations, here's the summary:

Physicians and surgeons - 819,000
Lawyers - 952,000
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers - 116,000​

Doesnt look like we have any shortage of Doctors or Lawyers...​

 

[FLYLOW22]

FG...

Labor Relations not keeping you busy lately back in BWY? Just bored?

Wish I could say it was nice to see your handle on here again... tool.

 

[FLYLOW22]

QOL at NJA... let's see.

Day one: Airline with a paid ticket from my home.

Day two: Fly to a service center and drop the rig off.

Day three: Repo. Fly pax to S. FL. Fly to small island in the Carribbean.

Day four: Beach day!! Walked 7 miles, looked at "scenery", enjoyed beverages.

Day five: Beach day!! Beverages. Scenery, etc. Got some color. Fell asleep to the sound of waves crashing around 2pm in a lounger. Woke up 4 hours later and wiped the drool from my face.

Day six: Airline back to the states.

Day seven: ???


Not bad...

 

[Floyd94]

^ Nice, can't wait to start, hopefully the ultra does some island flying.

 

[RCA]

Sounds like things are kinda rough for ya flow. Let us Know if there is anything we can do to help.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Sounds like things are kinda rough for ya flow. Let us Know if there is anything we can do to help.

Another day down here would be nice... I missed a spot on my shoulder with lotion and it got red. I'd like to even out the tan a bit. Oh well...

 

[FLYLOW22]

^ Nice, can't wait to start, hopefully the ultra does some island flying.

The U-Boat does do some island trips. Usually out and backs that allow for tankering fuel since prist (fuel additive... no fuel heaters) is hard to come by down here.

Bahamas are common... anything else is random and only because NJA didn't have a spare XL or something larger.