Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Major Airline vs NetJets

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
SteelerMan said:
Thanks for the info guys. Speaking only about retirement, at CAL, the company will contribute 12.75% of your salary(effective this summer). What NJ contributes is good, don't get me wrong, but in year two pay at CAL, the company will contribute more to your retirement (yr two is about 8000) than NJ ever will (Per year contribution) and over a 30 year career, these amounts are significantly different. After upgrade, CAL's contribution would be 20,000+ per year. So I think this is the main reason a person would make this move.
Click to expand...

I had no idea that CAL paid $83,760 in year 2. Good deal!

I also had no idea that with a $20,000/ month contribution @ 12.75% a newly upgraded Captain on the 737-500 would be pulling in $209,400. That's pretty damned good pay for a 1st year upgrade.

Of course you need to factor in years to upgrade and that darned age 60 thing.

Anyway, I looked at my 2006 contributions. NJA contributed more than $8,000 to my account for what it's worth.

Steeler, are you talking about 12.75 % of your salary going to a 401K or a pension?

NJA currently has nothing resembling a pension. Then again, neither does US Airways or United.

NJA has had 1 good contract so far. We all achieved much more in one contract than most ever do. It takes years to build up a great gig. So far this is a good gig with lots of room to grow.

I look forward to watering the plant.

Let's talk in 10 years when it's more apples/apples. Let's get at least another 2 contracts settled.
 
Fozzy said:
You may not see all of the match till after the end of the year. It is late and I am tired, but the company does not want people front loading. So they match 50% of 15%, and don't match anything over 15% till the begining of the following year, then they true up. I guess they don't want short timers, maxing out in the first 6 months, taking the company match and bailing.
I am sure someone will correct me and tell me I am all wrong. Anyways, I max (gov allowed) every year now.
Click to expand...


The true ups and when they are made are very important and need to be looked at by the union, if someone hasn't looked into it already. A former employer would hold the true ups late so we as employees would loose out on interest that was owed to us. We ended up taking them to court and won. Result was millions of dollars put back in our 401k. Very significant over say a twenty year run
 
Last edited:
I got bored today since I don't have to commute on my day off... so I did some digging.

Of particular interest to me was the stock option offerings. Can you imagine what Berkshire Hathaway stock would pay out with options?

So, 12.75% goes into a "B-Fund". What is a B-Fund? It sound like a pension. I hope that is an EMPLOYEE CONTROLLED pension. COMPANY CONTROLLED funds have a nasty way of... "shrinking into profitability" these days.
===================================================
Berkshire Hathaway'A' (BRK.A)

$108,800.00 http://finance.aol.com/_1208055852/jsp_quotes_4_0_3_20061208/img/b_upArrowGreen_big.gif +60.00 (+0.06%)

Previous Close 108,740.00 on 2/12/07 Open 108,900.00 on N/A Volume 30 on NYSE Day Low 108,800.00 as of 10:29 AM EST Day High 108,920.00 on N/A

===================================================
Contl Airlines'B' (CAL)

$43.43 http://finance.aol.com/_1208055852/jsp_quotes_4_0_3_20061208/img/b_upArrowGreen_big.gif +0.53 (+1.24%)

Previous Close 42.90 on 2/12/07 Open 43.15 as of 9:30 AM EST Volume 1,267,496 on NYSE Day Low 43.00 as of 9:30 AM EST Day High 43.65 as of 10:30 AM EST
=========================================================
Continental
  • Plans to remove up to 14 737-300s 2008, will be replaced with existing 737NG orders
  • Final profit sharing total of $111M pays out on February 14th
  • New service EWR-Athens in June
  • Pilots will receive 2nd stock option grant in March (price: $11.89/share)
  • Winglet mods to the first 737-500 began in January 2007
  • Fleet plans: retiring 737-300s beginning in 2008; replacing 767-200s with 787s
  • B-plan % in June goes to 12.75%
  • Taking delivery of two new 777s in 2007
  • 2008 deliveries: 14 737-800s; 2009: 14 737-800s and 2-3 787s
  • Converted 12 more 737NG orders to the -900ER (largest model of 737)
  • Standing orders for 24 737-900ERs
  • Receiving 60 737s over 2008 and 2009
  • Beginning Cleveland-Paris nonstops in 2008
  • Total of 20 787s on order
  • Fleet totals upon delivery completion: 787: 20; 737NG: 213
401K: ​
yes
401k Matching: ​
none
A/B Fund: ​
2.20% (frozen... meaning so sorry, no more)/10%
Other: ​
Profit sharing (stock options)
=======================================================

Sounds like you guys have a good gig going now. It was rough there a few decades ago but you have been able to build quite a nice contract followign rough times. Just took time... and leadership, and Unity... and no Lorenzo.
 
Last edited:
Fozzy, the company contributions at CAL are into a B fund, not a 401k, although they are similar in that you manage the money the same way. You also can invest either in individual stocks at CAL. You don't have to contribute to a 401k for this money to be deposited and there is no limit as of yet. Right now there is also profit sharing there, which added 7%+ to their pilots income in 06. Upgrades look good. I believe an 05 hire could have held captain on the last bid, but just barely. With age 65 coming down the road, possible mergers, who knows? But CAL does have 100 planes or so on order. No guarantees in this industry, but most there expect many improvements in the next contract including retirement, we'll see.
 
FLYLOW22 said:
I had no idea that CAL paid $83,760 in year 2. Good deal!
Click to expand...

I can't figure out how $55/hour (second year CAL pay) equals $83,670. That's 1521 hours, or 126 credit hours a month. How did the dollar figure climb that high? Or is the $55/hour not accurate?

If it's correct, that's some good cash. :D
 
CA1900 said:
I can't figure out how $55/hour (second year CAL pay) equals $83,670. That's 1521 hours, or 126 credit hours a month. How did the dollar figure climb that high? Or is the $55/hour not accurate?

If it's correct, that's some good cash. :D
Click to expand...


I think it may be more "fuzzy math".

Often times pilots flex their money muscle and forget about QOL issues (and what they are worth).

Sure...

An average joe (no IOE, CA, NRFO, or Jedi Master status) here could make upwards of $140,000 as a PIC @ year 5, putting in some extended flying as allowed for in the CBA, working holidays and flying the Reserve sched.

That's fine... it's also alot of work.

I see NJA positioned at the beginning of it's era. Airlines have had their day and will continue as a necessity of mass transport. NJA is just getting warmed up. The Fracs REALLY don't even compete with themselves, IMHO, because, even within a narrow section of the industry, they offer products with differences. The Fracs haven't even been forced to compete yet. No merger mania. No drama headlines in USA Today. Sure we have our rumors, but who doesn't? It's amazing that the majority (if not all) of our rumors are positive rumors about new airplanes and hiring.

We accomplished much in the last 4 years. Maybe Steeler will give us a few years before wanting to compare shmeckles. ;) I'm sure that CAL had a few years to build up what they have now... a few decades.
 
There is no more 15% of your salary limit set by the government for 401k- just the overall yearly limit that is $15,500 for 2007. As previously posted NJA only matches 50% of up to 15% of your salary per pay period and then trues up at the end of the year for anything above the 15% you put in. The max ammount you may have per year including company match or contributions between a 401k and/ or B fund is currently a bit over $40,000. I believe the FedEx and/or UPS guys are the ones to ask about that one. They have their pensions, B funds, and 401k and I've heard that the more senior guys are not able to max out their 401k due to all the money they are getting contributed into their B funds so they run into the other limit first. That is where the real money is at now- the highest pay scales and the best retirement. Flying at night is gonna take some years off of them, but they'll be livin' large till the end. I'm already at NJA though and way too lazy to go for it anywhere else unless this place takes a very unforseen dump.
 
Last edited:
Flylow 22-first thank you-you motivated me to check my 401 K for 2006. This is what I found-and it runs counter to what you posted.
I contributed $15,000 to the 401K plus $5000 catch up for a total of $20,000 for year 2006. During the year the company contributed $2550.20 as a company match. (remember to go back to your transaction history and pull up January 2006-and subtract the amount of true up for 2005 included in January 2006). On January 26,2007-my account was "trued up" with an additional $4949.80. Add $2550.20 and $4949.80 and you come up with $7500 total company contribution to my 401K for 2006. The extra $5000 catch up I contributed was not matched by NJA. Now I do realize that the current contract contradicts this move by the company as it calls for a 50% match on all contributed funds. I am confident the union will/is addressing this violation by the company. As always-thanks for your hard work!
 
Daveflier,

LOA 19 of the CBA addresses the "true-up" and catchups (which aren't included in the 50% match). You lose a little interest with the true-up plan; but a 50% match, even in the current incarnation, is still one of the best deals around for a 401K. No matter who I tell about our plan, pilot or not, they are amazed at it! Still in indoc, but sure am happy to be here!

Cheers,
265
 
Daveflier said:
The extra $5000 catch up I contributed was not matched by NJA.
Click to expand...


Admittedly, I have not read up on the contract as it relates to "Catch up" 401K contributions... they don't apply to me.

I would encourage you to read any applicable sections of the CBA that do address this (if any).

I would further encourage you to contact a Union Steward for clarification (after reading the CBA) with the CBA in front of you so that you can get the most from your convesation.
 
VVJM265 said:
Daveflier,

LOA 19 of the CBA addresses the "true-up" and catchups (which aren't included in the 50% match). You lose a little interest with the true-up plan; but a 50% match, even in the current incarnation, is still one of the best deals around for a 401K. No matter who I tell about our plan, pilot or not, they are amazed at it! Still in indoc, but sure am happy to be here!

Cheers,
265
Click to expand...

I am in total agreement with you. The NJA 401K is excellent. I also very much appreciate the work of Flylow22 who dedicates his time as a union volunteer. As a long time former ALPA member-I can affirm that ALPA cannot match IBT 1108!!
 
This has been a very informative thread! I'd like to just get back to the Majors vs. NetJets aspect though. I work for NetJets and have worked for a Regional prior to this. I think when it comes to compensation and benefits there is really no question that NJA is better. That's one of the big reasons I came here. But when it comes to comparing to Majors, I don't see NetJets getting quite there. For one thing, there will never ever be an Ultra Captain anywhere that makes $250K. Another thing that I think a lot of people at NetJets forget about is FO pay. This is natural because most guys here are in fact Captains that got the big pay increases with the contract and get the 20% raises for a few years around year 5. FO pay starts at "OK" and pretty much stays there. There's just no contest compared to what an FO makes at say SWA. Also guys being in the FO position at NetJets are going to be there much longer then the Captains before them. Not many are leaving off the top and upgrades are relatively few especially when you consider that most are Captains just switching equipment. I'm not complaining but that's just the way things are now and for a while into the future.

Is NetJets a career place? I think so or I wouldn't be there. Does the compensation at NetJets surpass or equal the Majors now or in the future? I don't think so. Is that necessarily a bad thing? No. Most people can make a decent living here. Do I think the NJA pilots deserve more in the future? Of course I do, and we should if our hard work is continuing to allow the company to make money like it is now.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying to work for NetJets. I just wanted to add my two pennies.

Thanks
 
WillFlyFoCookie said:
For one thing, there will never ever be an Ultra Captain anywhere that makes $250K.
Click to expand...

Actually my friend I just flew a tour with one. Now I will grant you he was working my a$$ off but it IS possible. For comparision a 12 year SWA Captain makes $189 an hour and presuming a 78 guarantee (I know this isnt how their system works) then you are looking at a base salary of $174,906. Compared to a 12 year NJA guy on reserve in a Cat 3 aircraft their base is $134,608. Now change that to a class 4 (yes I know there aren't many but hopefully we'll get more) and assume they have 4 years in program now we are talking about $159,050. Really the difference isn't that much.

No one will argue that SWA, UPS, and Fedex have higher monetary compensation but I would put our QOL against theirs any day. How much is that worth to you? Throw in the fact that we don't have to worry (nearly as much) about age 65, cabotage, sabotage, or price wars and I think its pretty dang close between us and them. Now if we could just get into CASS it would be perfect...
 
SteelerMan said:
Thanks for the info guys. Speaking only about retirement, at CAL, the company will contribute 12.75% of your salary(effective this summer). What NJ contributes is good, don't get me wrong, but in year two pay at CAL, the company will contribute more to your retirement (yr two is about 8000) than NJ ever will (Per year contribution) and over a 30 year career, these amounts are significantly different. After upgrade, CAL's contribution would be 20,000+ per year. So I think this is the main reason a person would make this move.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we'll see how long THAT lasts...just check out this link for the real story. NJA pays more than the majors....just the facts.

www.airlinepilotcentral.com
 
Last edited:
I guess I'm done trying to post information to help people out, getting idiotic responses like this. Apparently the information I have posted to try and help someone with their career decision concerning retirement is not the "real story" so maybe you could tell us exactly what is the real story and what was incorrect about what I posted.
 
Question:

I know 100% of SWA 12 yr capts are guaranteed a min of $174,906. What percentage of the Capts at NJA are Cat 3 or higher currently? What about with future plans (orders?)

Thanks
 
canadflyau said:
Question:

I know 100% of SWA 12 yr capts are guaranteed a min of $174,906. What percentage of the Capts at NJA are Cat 3 or higher currently? What about with future plans (orders?)

Thanks
Click to expand...


Many variables there...

Right now, most fleets are Class 1-3 and RTS knew it. Further, the way a Class is determined is a bit... slanted. No worries. We accomplished much last time. There are more CBAs in front of us. Many more.
 
I would think that CURRENTLY anyone on property who has been here 12 years should be able to easily hold a cat 3 airframe, if not cat 4. Now 5 years from now that may not necessarily be the case due to rapid growth over the last few years and the lack of attrition (hint: this is because our job doesn't suck). A quick glance at the seniority list shows the most junior PIC on cat 3 pay appears to be a G-200 driver with a 1/03 DOH. Most junior cat 4 PIC looks to be a 9/97 hire. Not sure about a percentage breakdown
 
canadflyau said:
Question:

I know 100% of SWA 12 yr capts are guaranteed a min of $174,906. What percentage of the Capts at NJA are Cat 3 or higher currently? What about with future plans (orders?)

Thanks
Click to expand...
First, let me answer your question directly. If you are a 12 guy at NJA, your seniority number would be less than 65 and you are in Cat 4 territory. As a cat 4 PIC, assuming 2 years in the program, your base pay would be about $125,000 or $150,000 depending on schedule. Realistically you could plan on another $15,000 to $20,000 in overtime, extended days, etc.. That is the here and now.

Second, What the future holds for those of us hired during the boom of six years ago and later is totally different. I am currently in approxiamately the top third of the seniority list. I have no expectations of ever making cat 4 PIC pay. There are too many guys in front of me. That's all right though, because my W2 wages are more than 7 and 7 cat 4 base.

Third, I echo what Twotter76 has to say. I too will put NetJets QOL up against any airline, anytime. There are so many positive intangibles here that you would have to experience them yourself. I don't have the words to explain.

Lastly, this job is NOT for everybody. I love my job, but not everyone is down with this type of flying. To me, not knowing where I will be RONing from one night to the next is exciting. To others it is frustrating. Different strokes for different folks.

Even after the enormous growth we have had in the last 7 years, I still think that NetJets is the best kept secret in aviation.
 
FLYLOW22 said:
Many variables there...

Right now, most fleets are Class 1-3 and RTS knew it. Further, the way a Class is determined is a bit... slanted. No worries. We accomplished much last time. There are more CBAs in front of us. Many more.
Click to expand...

LOL....
 
Cavpilot said:
Lastly, this job is NOT for everybody. I love my job, but not everyone is down with this type of flying. To me, not knowing where I will be RONing from one night to the next is exciting. To others it is frustrating. Different strokes for different folks.

Even after the enormous growth we have had in the last 7 years, I still think that NetJets is the best kept secret in aviation.
Click to expand...

This is very true. I am very happy at NJs. Some days are very tough, while others are easy. I just came off of my 7 day vacation (it was really 21 days). Then I was flying a trip that was a transcon everyday for the first 4 days. Then we are flying into Manzinillo, MX and over to Cabo for the overnight. Doing all of the little stuff isnt hard, it just makes some days long. Dealing with the 1-6 customers is fun for the most part.

I am not going back to the airlines.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom