Major Airline vs NetJets

[FLYLOW22]

Thanks for the info guys. Speaking only about retirement, at CAL, the company will contribute 12.75% of your salary(effective this summer). What NJ contributes is good, don't get me wrong, but in year two pay at CAL, the company will contribute more to your retirement (yr two is about 8000) than NJ ever will (Per year contribution) and over a 30 year career, these amounts are significantly different. After upgrade, CAL's contribution would be 20,000+ per year. So I think this is the main reason a person would make this move.

I had no idea that CAL paid $83,760 in year 2. Good deal!

I also had no idea that with a $20,000/ month contribution @ 12.75% a newly upgraded Captain on the 737-500 would be pulling in $209,400. That's pretty damned good pay for a 1st year upgrade.

Of course you need to factor in years to upgrade and that darned age 60 thing.

Anyway, I looked at my 2006 contributions. NJA contributed more than $8,000 to my account for what it's worth.

Steeler, are you talking about 12.75 % of your salary going to a 401K or a pension?

NJA currently has nothing resembling a pension. Then again, neither does US Airways or United.

NJA has had 1 good contract so far. We all achieved much more in one contract than most ever do. It takes years to build up a great gig. So far this is a good gig with lots of room to grow.

I look forward to watering the plant.

Let's talk in 10 years when it's more apples/apples. Let's get at least another 2 contracts settled.

 

[captain dad]

You may not see all of the match till after the end of the year. It is late and I am tired, but the company does not want people front loading. So they match 50% of 15%, and don't match anything over 15% till the begining of the following year, then they true up. I guess they don't want short timers, maxing out in the first 6 months, taking the company match and bailing.
I am sure someone will correct me and tell me I am all wrong. Anyways, I max (gov allowed) every year now.

The true ups and when they are made are very important and need to be looked at by the union, if someone hasn't looked into it already. A former employer would hold the true ups late so we as employees would loose out on interest that was owed to us. We ended up taking them to court and won. Result was millions of dollars put back in our 401k. Very significant over say a twenty year run

 

[FLYLOW22]

I got bored today since I don't have to commute on my day off... so I did some digging.

Of particular interest to me was the stock option offerings. Can you imagine what Berkshire Hathaway stock would pay out with options?

So, 12.75% goes into a "B-Fund". What is a B-Fund? It sound like a pension. I hope that is an EMPLOYEE CONTROLLED pension. COMPANY CONTROLLED funds have a nasty way of... "shrinking into profitability" these days.
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Berkshire Hathaway'A' (BRK.A)

$108,800.00 http://finance.aol.com/_1208055852/jsp_quotes_4_0_3_20061208/img/b_upArrowGreen_big.gif +60.00 (+0.06%)

Previous Close 108,740.00 on 2/12/07 Open 108,900.00 on N/A Volume 30 on NYSE Day Low 108,800.00 as of 10:29 AM EST Day High 108,920.00 on N/A

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Contl Airlines'B' (CAL)

$43.43 http://finance.aol.com/_1208055852/jsp_quotes_4_0_3_20061208/img/b_upArrowGreen_big.gif +0.53 (+1.24%)

Previous Close 42.90 on 2/12/07 Open 43.15 as of 9:30 AM EST Volume 1,267,496 on NYSE Day Low 43.00 as of 9:30 AM EST Day High 43.65 as of 10:30 AM EST
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Continental

• Plans to remove up to 14 737-300s 2008, will be replaced with existing 737NG orders
• Final profit sharing total of $111M pays out on February 14th
• New service EWR-Athens in June
• Pilots will receive 2nd stock option grant in March (price: $11.89/share)
• Winglet mods to the first 737-500 began in January 2007
• Fleet plans: retiring 737-300s beginning in 2008; replacing 767-200s with 787s
• B-plan % in June goes to 12.75%
• Taking delivery of two new 777s in 2007
• 2008 deliveries: 14 737-800s; 2009: 14 737-800s and 2-3 787s
• Converted 12 more 737NG orders to the -900ER (largest model of 737)
• Standing orders for 24 737-900ERs
• Receiving 60 737s over 2008 and 2009
• Beginning Cleveland-Paris nonstops in 2008
• Total of 20 787s on order
• Fleet totals upon delivery completion: 787: 20; 737NG: 213

401K: ​

yes

401k Matching: ​

none

A/B Fund: ​

2.20% (frozen... meaning so sorry, no more)/10%

Other: ​

Profit sharing (stock options)
=======================================================

Sounds like you guys have a good gig going now. It was rough there a few decades ago but you have been able to build quite a nice contract followign rough times. Just took time... and leadership, and Unity... and no Lorenzo.

 

[SteelerMan]

Fozzy, the company contributions at CAL are into a B fund, not a 401k, although they are similar in that you manage the money the same way. You also can invest either in individual stocks at CAL. You don't have to contribute to a 401k for this money to be deposited and there is no limit as of yet. Right now there is also profit sharing there, which added 7%+ to their pilots income in 06. Upgrades look good. I believe an 05 hire could have held captain on the last bid, but just barely. With age 65 coming down the road, possible mergers, who knows? But CAL does have 100 planes or so on order. No guarantees in this industry, but most there expect many improvements in the next contract including retirement, we'll see.

 

[SteelerMan]

FlyLow, your math is fuzzy.

12.75% of 83760 would be 10679
I used 63000 which is about 8000.

 

[FLYLOW22]

FlyLow, your math is fuzzy.

12.75% of 83760 would be 10679
I used 63000 which is about 8000.

Sorry, I'm a Democrat.

 

[CA1900]

I had no idea that CAL paid $83,760 in year 2. Good deal!

I can't figure out how $55/hour (second year CAL pay) equals $83,670. That's 1521 hours, or 126 credit hours a month. How did the dollar figure climb that high? Or is the $55/hour not accurate?

If it's correct, that's some good cash.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I can't figure out how $55/hour (second year CAL pay) equals $83,670. That's 1521 hours, or 126 credit hours a month. How did the dollar figure climb that high? Or is the $55/hour not accurate?

If it's correct, that's some good cash.

I think it may be more "fuzzy math".

Often times pilots flex their money muscle and forget about QOL issues (and what they are worth).

Sure...

An average joe (no IOE, CA, NRFO, or Jedi Master status) here could make upwards of $140,000 as a PIC @ year 5, putting in some extended flying as allowed for in the CBA, working holidays and flying the Reserve sched.

That's fine... it's also alot of work.

I see NJA positioned at the beginning of it's era. Airlines have had their day and will continue as a necessity of mass transport. NJA is just getting warmed up. The Fracs REALLY don't even compete with themselves, IMHO, because, even within a narrow section of the industry, they offer products with differences. The Fracs haven't even been forced to compete yet. No merger mania. No drama headlines in USA Today. Sure we have our rumors, but who doesn't? It's amazing that the majority (if not all) of our rumors are positive rumors about new airplanes and hiring.

We accomplished much in the last 4 years. Maybe Steeler will give us a few years before wanting to compare shmeckles. I'm sure that CAL had a few years to build up what they have now... a few decades.

 

[jtf]

There is no more 15% of your salary limit set by the government for 401k- just the overall yearly limit that is $15,500 for 2007. As previously posted NJA only matches 50% of up to 15% of your salary per pay period and then trues up at the end of the year for anything above the 15% you put in. The max ammount you may have per year including company match or contributions between a 401k and/ or B fund is currently a bit over $40,000. I believe the FedEx and/or UPS guys are the ones to ask about that one. They have their pensions, B funds, and 401k and I've heard that the more senior guys are not able to max out their 401k due to all the money they are getting contributed into their B funds so they run into the other limit first. That is where the real money is at now- the highest pay scales and the best retirement. Flying at night is gonna take some years off of them, but they'll be livin' large till the end. I'm already at NJA though and way too lazy to go for it anywhere else unless this place takes a very unforseen dump.

 

[FLYLOW22]

And there ya go. Nothing comes cheap or free.