Major Airline vs NetJets

[Quimby]

what happens when the Pilatus gets sold?

 

[flyipilot]

One other important factor for me not going to SWA is the fact I have to pay for the job. I have done enough paying for my job...and I really do not see myself investing in a B-737 type rating just to get a possible interview. At NetJets they do the right thing in providing you with the proper training and a type rating in the aircraft you are hired into. All free. As it should be. Even McDonalds provides free initial training.. I know people will say that it is a small price to pay to get into a job where you will make good money. But, I already have a job where I make good money and it will be as good as at SWA. Not to mention I have heard in the not so distant past that SWA management was talking to unions about first time possible pay freeze or cuts. That might have changed but it was something I heard back when fuel was out of control...and it can be that way again. So, all I am saying I do not care how great thr peanuts are on SWA...companies should stop charging pilots to work there. Or is this how they really make a profit...hmmmm.

 

[Twotter76]

One of the things I like about NJs is most of the people would love to fly on us, whereas most people dread having to fly on SWA.

Ain't that the truth. I HATE flying SWA. If I wanted to stand in line all day i'd go to the DMV. But I suppose the Nascar fans have to get around too. Besides, I never knew there were so many other uses for garbage bags. Learn something new every day.

For the record, I flew 9 days in Jan. I had a 7 day vacation (21 days off). I flew 7 days in Feb (7th-13th). I wont see a plane untill March 7th.

Hmm sounds like my schedule. Worked 17 days in Jan but 5 of them were paid extended days and 2 were for a union meeting in CMH. Flew 4 days in Feb (6th-9th, 1 was an extended day) and now i'm off until the 6th of March. Hooray for vacation! I don't think i'm going to go to SWA either but everyone senior to me certainly should, its obviously better there.

 

[SpaceBall 1]

One other important factor for me not going to SWA is the fact I have to pay for the job. I have done enough paying for my job...and I really do not see myself investing in a B-737 type rating just to get a possible interview. At NetJets they do the right thing in providing you with the proper training and a type rating in the aircraft you are hired into. All free. As it should be. Even McDonalds provides free initial training.. I know people will say that it is a small price to pay to get into a job where you will make good money. But, I already have a job where I make good money and it will be as good as at SWA. Not to mention I have heard in the not so distant past that SWA management was talking to unions about first time possible pay freeze or cuts. That might have changed but it was something I heard back when fuel was out of control...and it can be that way again. So, all I am saying I do not care how great thr peanuts are on SWA...companies should stop charging pilots to work there. Or is this how they really make a profit...hmmmm.

Be careful who you throw rocks at. It wasn't that long ago that NJ made pilots pay double the cost of a 737 type for a job that paid A LOT less than SWA. Also, If you think your pay could never be cut at NJ, you're living in a dreamworld. Paycuts can happen to any body, at any time in any occupation.

 

[JustInfo]

Like was said not too long ago during our negotiations - NJA will cease to exists before there are any pay cuts. I think the term was STFD.

 

[flyipilot]

Be careful who you throw rocks at. It wasn't that long ago that NJ made pilots pay double the cost of a 737 type for a job that paid A LOT less than SWA. Also, If you think your pay could never be cut at NJ, you're living in a dreamworld. Paycuts can happen to any body, at any time in any occupation.

I am not throwing rocks...just stating facts. Yes, I am very aware that paycuts can happen anywhere, but when NJ was getting a new contract with raises during one of the worst oil crisis in recent years, every single major airline was cutting pay, benefits, and work rules. I did work for an sirline that charged me to work there...ACA and I like most foolish, hungry, and new pilots took the bait and paid for training. They dropped it a year later because they had to be more competitive. If pilots would take a stand and stop applying to SWA, they would have NO choice but to drop the pay for hire policy. Shame on their own MEC for allowing it to go on and on and on...but hey they had to pay so why not make everyone else pay. I happen to enjoy flying on SWA and am not in any way bashing the company on any other front than their pilot hiring parctice. But, this is a major reason I would not work there but a long as we keep blindly feeding them...they keep laughing to the training center. When does it ever end? When do we ever start to look at our careers as professional as a doctor, lawyer, or skilled labor? Do we keep taking the jobs at any pay rate? At any price? Mesa, Virgin America (provided DOT caves in to a few SFO lost souls), Skybus.....who will be next...how about we start an airline where we charge the pilot to fly the airbus? hmmmm...$65.00 an hour seems fair since they can build up their needed 1300 PIC turbine time just to go pay for a 737 type and apply to the dream job at SWA. Just might work. We can give them a great benefit package...(for a small billable fee), and give them a monthly guarantee of 90 hours...(min airbus rental). I know Orenstein would be drooling..just dont tell Branson...oppps...he is not really involved with VA...

 

[FamilyGuy]

I did work for an sirline that charged me to work there...ACA and I like most foolish, hungry, and new pilots took the bait and paid for training. They dropped it a year later because they had to be more competitive. If pilots would take a stand and stop applying to SWA, they would have NO choice but to drop the pay for hire policy. Shame on their own MEC for allowing it to go on and on and on...but hey they had to pay so why not make everyone else pay. I happen to enjoy flying on SWA and am not in any way bashing the company on any other front than their pilot hiring parctice. But, this is a major reason I would not work there but a long as we keep blindly feeding them...they keep laughing to the training center. When does it ever end? When do we ever start to look at our careers as professional as a doctor, lawyer, or skilled labor?

Every doctor or lawyer that I've met paid for their degree.

Every doctor or lawyer that I've met succeeded or failed based on their skills, not what some third party bargaining group negotiated for them. If they screwed up or had a poor track record they didnt get clients and income. If they do good work and establish a great reputation then they get more clients and raise their rates accordingly.

 

[flyipilot]

Every doctor or lawyer that I've met paid for their degree.

Every doctor or lawyer that I've met succeeded or failed based on their skills, not what some third party bargaining group negotiated for them. If they screwed up or had a poor track record they didnt get clients and income. If they do good work and establish a great reputation then they get more clients and raise their rates accordingly.

That is exactly my point. I paid for my Private thru ATP...and college, just as the doctor and lawyer did. I do know of one hospital in the country that charges a Dr. to come work for them. None. I wish we as pilots would be based on our individual skills as well, we are not. Or at least the union guys are not. I flew many a "fair" pilot who slid through the system only because he had a union. I know people who worked where I did would agree. I would have no problem being judged as the professional I am; as is a doctor or lawyer. My only point was that airlines are notorious for gouging and treating their core employees (pilots, FA's, mechanics, rampers, agents) like crap. They charge for uniforms, McDonalds and In and Out do not, they charge you to fly on your own airline..stand by!, they even used to charge a fee to apply for them. The application processing fee! Some still use this method by making you go through a paid application site. I am very proud I work for one of the few aviation businesses that did not charge to work here, paid for my uniform, and it was free to apply. The airlines will have to see changes in the future as we run out of qualified pilots, yes...even for SWA. Then they will have to pay you for the type!

 

[gunfyter]

Doctors have the best union in the world... the AMA....

Keeps the admissions to med school down thereby eliminating competition.

 

[Diesel]

hey familycuunt is back yipppe. Great more unbiased spin from the company. Whoopdie friggin do.

Most doctor fees are now set by hmo's. Thus why you see a lot of doctors gettting out of specialized medicine and into general practice. Now we're talking about the orthopods the ones that have skills such as surgery much like we have as flying a plane.

Most doctors actually do have a 3rd party negotiate a fee. Meet the AMA. They have set it by limiting the number of doctors coming in the door. Ever notice that there aren't any cameras, voice recorders or even alcohol tests in the operating room? Yup thank the AMA. But diesel if they had those things there wouldn't be this question on what a doctor did during an operation that went wrong. They could be like pilots where we could discect every little move they make. wait here comes the AMA. nope that idea is dead.

Doctors have the key that pilots do not. From day one they are told they are special, they are smarter than the rest, that nobody should question their authority, that they are god and decide on life and death decisions. Ever notice that even the the nurses run the shop the doctors rule with an iron fist and while a nurse might be right a doctor is reminded of his training, you're number 1, you're the best, nobody can question your judgment. They know their skills are in demand even if they do poorly.

Pilots on the other hand will sell out their own mother to fly a shiney new jet. Look at the regionals. The job of a pilot has been micromanaged by so many people that it no longer is a job of authority and command decision. People like familyguy and others think well i can drive a car i'm sure i can do a pilots job. But you'll never see anybody actually go get the training and sacrifices to get to the position where we are flying.

Man those pilots are spoiled, i could do that job, i just don't have the time to get trained or sacrifice flying a freighter through the ice. I could talk like a pilot on a weboard but have no real idea what it is they do. Ahhh the dumming down of the profession.