Major Airline vs NetJets

[Floyd94]

I see some of the new hires at CAL are from NJA. Are those guys just chasing big planes or is there a legit reason for the move?? Things that make you go hmmm.....

 

[DO-82 driver]

NJA is not suited for everyone. This is a unique business that requires a person to go beyond what many of us thought a career in aviation should demand.

Everyone has their own reasons.

 

[jtf]

In my opinion, I think there are probably a fair number of pilots here that do miss flying for an airline and probably always dreamed of working for one of the majors. I know I miss the travel benefits that I had at the airlines. However, the vast majority of NJA pilots who would like to work for one of the majors are probably never going to test those waters or never test them again unless NJA goes down the drain for some unforeseen reason.

The reasoning behind this is that most of us believe NJA is probably a safer bet and while the money at the top isn't quite as good as the majors, the security and the benefits that NJA does have outweigh the risks involved with going for it at a major. Every time there is a terrorist plot or action that harms the airlines NJA gets more business. The majority, but not all, of the airlines out there also have a proven track record of hideous management that has cost thousands of jobs, retirement accounts, and careers. The airlines also have a cyclical history of big furloughs.
these are all quite scary things and the vast majority of pilots here who were furloughed from majors are not going back, but there will always be some who want that lifestyle more and are willing to take that risk.

7 and 7 isn't great for everyone and I'd bet that the majority of pilots here didn't dream about flying corporate jets when they were growing up- most of us probably dreamed about the glory days at the airlines and most of us realize now that those days probably aren't ever going to come back. I'm sure the majors will get their compensation and rules up from where they've sunk to, but I doubt they will ever be what I dreamed about when I was growing up. I'm happy at NJA and I think the vast majority here are also. I'm definitely not saying something can't go wrong here, but right now I doubt there will be many making the jump.

 

[Go Fly]

There are various reasons folks would jump ship at NJA to swim the dangerous waters of the 121 world again:

1. Big plane fever
2. Prefer the stability of the day-to-day scheduling of the airlines
3. Better pay over the length of their career (for now)
4. Don't want to clean planes, load bags and take care of passengers
5. Still PO'ed about the contract negotiations

I turned down a Continental interview to stay at NJA because:

1. Wife won't move and I won't commute again (not that I'd want to live in Houston, Cleveland or Newark anyway)
2. Big paycut at first year FO pay at CAL
3. Enjoy the flying we do at NJA over the 121 world
4. Love the 7 and 7 schedule and knowing what my schedule will be for the rest of the year
5. Paid medical, dental and vision (a big plus with a family)
6. Fantastic 401K program (I'm betting CAL loses its pension sooner or later)
7. Two weeks vacation that turns into 3 weeks off.
8. etc

I've flown with several guys at NJA that just don't like the lifestyle and can't handle the daily schedule changes. They also don't want to provide service to the passengers. Nothing against these guys, it's just not their cup of tea and they would definitely be happier at the majors.

I say more power to the guys going to CAL, they're probably senior to me anyway!

 

[Floyd94]

^ I would almost argue that the pay is better at NJA. CAL 777 guy ops out at 186/hr with a 72hr guarentee($160,704/yr). BBJ and DA-200EX at NJA top out higher than that($229,850/yr. and $198,360/yr). Also, upgrade time at NJA is much quicker than CAL so over all earnings would probably be better at NJA.

 

[RNObased]

^ I would almost argue that the pay is better at NJA. CAL 777 guy ops out at 186/hr with a 72hr guarentee($160,704/yr). BBJ and DA-200EX at NJA top out higher than that($229,850/yr. and $198,360/yr). Also, upgrade time at NJA is much quicker than CAL so over all earnings would probably be better at NJA.

Spoke with 777 capt at a major airline while airlining last tour, and he doesn't make that much more then me. He has been at his airline for 30 years.

 

[FLYLOW22]

^ I would almost argue that the pay is better at NJA. CAL 777 guy ops out at 186/hr with a 72hr guarentee($160,704/yr). BBJ and DA-200EX at NJA top out higher than that($229,850/yr. and $198,360/yr). Also, upgrade time at NJA is much quicker than CAL so over all earnings would probably be better at NJA.

It just depends guys.

There aren't many Class 4-5 planes paying those slaries at NJA. Hopefully that changes but that's up to RTS to order the rigs.

Most pilots here are CLass 1-3. You can make well into the 100s in a CLass 1-3, especially if you are willing to fly the Reserve Sched.

On 7n7, you will still pull down decent coin.

NJA is in the drivers seat of it's niche of the industry. If NJA were SWA, there are no comperable competitors of the same size... yet anyway.

NJA has TREMENDOUS financial backing with a business model that is unbeatable. Um, let's see if I have it down here... if fuel prices increase, the Owner pays for it. If prices increase, the Onwer pays for it. If landing fees or operating costs increase in any way what's so ever, the Owner pays for it. NO airline has cost controls like that in place.

NJA has a brand name that Owners care deeply to be associated with. Most airline pax could give a rip how they got to PBI fro NY.

NJA is, in many ways, still in it's infancy in a young marketplace.

This business is alot like surfing. Some surfers catch a killer wave, some none and just sit around all day sharing stories with buds. The important thing is being out there and watching out for sharks along the way.

This has indeed turned into a better job than it was. Still some improvements left to make, but ain't that always the case?

 

[gunfyter]

Watch the exagerating on pay. 2006 was not a typical yr because most people collected Retro pay. Plus I don't want people talking concessions.

Or former wives contacting me....

 

[blzr]

What is the typical yearly flight time at A fractional? For some corp, 400hrs a year is a big year.

 

[Cavpilot]

I had a conversation with an ATA buddy of mine. As is usually the case when flying professionals get together, the conversation turned to money. When I told him what I expected to make in '06 (sans bonus), he drew a blank stare. He then told me that, that was the what a 12 year 757 captain was bringing down there.
I'll always be fond of my airline time, albeit Comair time. But the only way that I'm leaving NetJets is with two 300 lb., former OSU linemen, on each arm, throwing me out the door (I would still go to City BBQ before I left).

 

[RJET]

One guy in my hire class went to CAL because of the big airplane fever.

 

[sweptwingz]

"Grass is greener syndrome", I guess.

Pay me 200K per year, with a 10 day work month,
and I'd fly cheerfully fly a Wilga.

 

[sweptwingz]

What is the typical yearly flight time at A fractional? For some corp, 400hrs a year is a big year.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It totally depends on fleet age, use, and type.

Bid wisely, and beware of airplanes that fly too fast
for their own good.

Coast to coast to coast to coast to coast to coast to
coast to coast to coast to coast to coast......

.....Tends to get old REAL quickly in a cockpit roughly the size
of a 1971 MG Midget's.

Even at Mach .92.

 

[SteelerMan]

What does NJ contribute as far as retirement goes?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

There are various reasons folks would jump ship at NJA to swim the dangerous waters of the 121 world again:

1. Big plane fever
(sad but true. Most Heavy 121 Guys I fly with cry because they didnt get into Gulfstreams/Falcons earlier)
2. Prefer the stability of the day-to-day scheduling of the airlines
(it takes years and years to get a good schedule at the airlines, and years on reserve is like prison time)
3. Better pay over the length of their career (for now)
(agree with the earlier post. Depending on age, a NJA pilot will make out much better in average wages and retirement vs. a major airline as it stands now)
4. Don't want to clean planes, load bags and take care of passengers
(lazy bastards... a good dose of hard work never hurt anybody, and anybody who thinks loading bags and saying 'Yes Sir' is hard work has abviously never worked)
5. Still PO'ed about the contract negotiations
(sad but true again)

Excellent Post Go Fly.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

What does NJ contribute as far as retirement goes?

50% match of your contribution to the IRS limit, (currently $15,500/yr).

 

[RCA]

I've heard you can contribute 15,500 plus the company match. Is the IRS limit is how much you can conribute?

 

[Twotter76]

I've heard you can contribute 15,500 plus the company match. Is the IRS limit is how much you can conribute?

Yes the 15.5k is the maximum you are allowed to defer from your paychecks. I believe if you are over 50 there is also a 401k catch-up which is something like another 5k that you can add (one of you old guys can chime in here). The company will match 50% of the 15.5k for a total of $23,250 if you max it out.

 

[Cavpilot]

. The company will match 50% of the 15.5k for a total of $23,250 if you max it out.

23,250 is damn near double what I made the first year at a regional. God bless NJA.

 

[nerdpilot]

Who is CAL????

 

[jonjuan]

Yes the 15.5k is the maximum you are allowed to defer from your paychecks. I believe if you are over 50 there is also a 401k catch-up which is something like another 5k that you can add (one of you old guys can chime in here). The company will match 50% of the 15.5k for a total of $23,250 if you max it out.

Says who? You can contribute $15.5K this year. The company then matches 50% of 15% of your salary. If you make 75K, for example, the company will give you $5,625. This totals $21,125, not $23,250.

 

[Cavpilot]

If you make 75K, for example, the company will give you $5,625. This totals $21,125, not $23,250.

Explain to me why this is a bad thing. Unless you don't want a $5,625 match.

 

[208starcheck]

Says who? You can contribute $15.5K this year. The company then matches 50% of 15% of your salary. If you make 75K, for example, the company will give you $5,625. This totals $21,125, not $23,250.

Sorry but the 15% number is no longer correct. The new contract says nothing about 15%. The company will match 50% of what you put in (which is limited by the IRS at $15,500) I do 19% because I'm an FO and will not hit the $15,500 limit.

 

[Fozzy]

You may not see all of the match till after the end of the year. It is late and I am tired, but the company does not want people front loading. So they match 50% of 15%, and don't match anything over 15% till the begining of the following year, then they true up. I guess they don't want short timers, maxing out in the first 6 months, taking the company match and bailing.
I am sure someone will correct me and tell me I am all wrong. Anyways, I max (gov allowed) every year now.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Says who? You can contribute $15.5K this year. The company then matches 50% of 15% of your salary. If you make 75K, for example, the company will give you $5,625. This totals $21,125, not $23,250.

Still... $21,125/$23,669...

Twice as much as my 1st full year at a regional.

And it IS 50% match of whatever you contribute.

 

[Floyd94]

It just depends guys.

There aren't many Class 4-5 planes paying those slaries at NJA. Hopefully that changes but that's up to RTS to order the rigs.

Most pilots here are CLass 1-3. You can make well into the 100s in a CLass 1-3, especially if you are willing to fly the Reserve Sched.

?

At the same time, compared to the amount of pilots at CAL, there aren't that many 77/76 Captains making $186 an hour either. Most are on the 73.

And for the stock ticker challenged, "CAL" = Continental Airlines.

 

[SteelerMan]

Thanks for the info guys. Speaking only about retirement, at CAL, the company will contribute 12.75% of your salary(effective this summer). What NJ contributes is good, don't get me wrong, but in year two pay at CAL, the company will contribute more to your retirement (yr two is about 8000) than NJ ever will (Per year contribution) and over a 30 year career, these amounts are significantly different. After upgrade, CAL's contribution would be 20,000+ per year. So I think this is the main reason a person would make this move.

 

[Fozzy]

Steeler,
Not that I am interested in going to CAL, but I like to see what other have in order to further what we might go after down the road.
First, you are talking about 401K contributions, correct?
It looks like the company just puts that money in your 401K, but does it require you to put anything in for them to match?

20K per year after upgrade is a nugget, add in your 15.5K+ and that is a serious deposit. What is the max gov allowed from the employer anyways? That must be getting close to the cut off. And how long before you upgrade?

Just make sure when they come crying that they need cutbacks, you tell them to get bent.:bomb:

 

[jonjuan]

Still... $21,125/$23,669...

Twice as much as my 1st full year at a regional.

And it IS 50% match of whatever you contribute.

Gotcha. Different than how most companies 401Ks are set up.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Gotcha. Different than how most companies 401Ks are set up.

15% as a limitation is mandated by the fed, not company imposed.

An employee may elect to set aside up to 15% of their total earnings per paycheck into a 401K.

What an empoyer matches is completely up to and between the employer/employee. They could match at a premium of 200% I'd imagine as part of some exorbinent retirement plan (see CEO pay).