Mainline USAir undercuts AGAIN!

[Oakum_Boy]

I'm not undercutting YOU if i'm establishing payrates for an aircraft that YOU DO NOT FLY!!!

You ARE undercutting ME if you're establishing payrates for an aircraft that was designed to replace an aircraft that I currently fly.

But hey, I dont have a dog in this fight. I dont fly for the airlines anymore. I just can't believe that your vision is so clouded that you cant see the bigger E-Jets for what they are -- replacements.

Or, if you prefer - Guppy Killers

The brand name is nothing. The number of seats is everything. The Bombardier 50-seat jet was designed to replace turboprops. ALPA and mainline MEC's gave management permission to replace mainline jets with RJ's.

Now ALPA is "helping" the poor furloughed guys out, by agreeing to let them fly 100-seat jets for 60 bucks an hour. Just what are the Usair guys gonna come back to if ALPA keeps dropping the bar on larger and larger jets. Regional guys are not the enemy. Look to your thugged-out union leadership. Homey.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Preaching to the choir there my friend.

There is one bankruptcy/liquidation that I am anxiously awaiting.

ALPA.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm not undercutting YOU if i'm establishing payrates for an aircraft that YOU DO NOT FLY!!!

The USAirways pilots DO NOT FLY IT EITHER! They undercut the rates to capture this seat range. You can call it whatever you wish, but it is yet another example of the world revolving around the "mainline" pilot.

You ARE undercutting ME if you're establishing payrates for an aircraft that was designed to replace an aircraft that I currently fly.

But hey, I dont have a dog in this fight. I dont fly for the airlines anymore. I just can't believe that your vision is so clouded that you cant see the bigger E-Jets for what they are -- replacements.

Or, if you prefer - Guppy Killers

The USAirways MEC negotiated 70 seat rates at MDA that UNDERCUT the 70 seat rates at ASA, CMR, and MEC. Now the USAirways MEC has negotiated 90 seat rates that are less than CMRs and HZNs 70 seat rates. That is undercutting. Go ahead and call it what you want - I call it WAR! It's a free for all created by management with ALPA's blessing.

As far as being "replacements", every aircraft any regional flies is a "replacement". Remember, mainline used to fly DC3s, Martin404s, and Convair580s. Of course we are replacements. Maybe ALPA should have thought about that 20 years ago. Now it is simply one group looking out for itself at the expense of another group.

Joe

 

[JoeMerchant]

Preaching to the choir there my friend.

There is one bankruptcy/liquidation that I am anxiously awaiting.

ALPA.

Furloughed,
At least we agree on this. ALPA is self destructing. Time for the ALPA national leadership to join the unemployment ranks!

Joe

 

[Crzipilot]

Amazing. Hmmm......a mainline does what it needs for more airplanes and it's undercutting the regional. Remember these sized planes were mainline for years. Now I agree with your views on ALPA, but maybe this is the start of change of tides within. Someone woke up and said WTF are we doing here. (would like to think so, but prob. isn't true)
Anyways, the reality of the situation, is most of the regional feed is contracted. In any situation the contractor is usually held at the whim of the corporation. Though in most situations I've seen, Such as banking, gov't, etc etc, when a contractor is brought in, it's usually at a MUCH HIGHER pay rate than doing it in house. Here, it's quite the opposite, at least on the pilot pay scales. Though I wonder, If the same contract was operated under the mainline flag, would it cost less to operate than the fee for departure contracts that are rampent. If it was less, then I would presume, there's only one point of savings going on, and that's the pay scales.

 

[Crzipilot]

OH BTW, have you seen the payscales yet??? If so please post them, I haven't seen them, so how do u know mainline "undercut" the regionals. If your tired of being undercut, why don't you go and apply somewhere it won't happen? Don't want to take the paycut is the theme I generally hear, well most of us that made the jump, took the paycut to do such. Either guys as they came up through the ranks prepared, knowing what it took, or just did what it took. I left a job paying 6 figures, to start over at a major.....as many others did too. Why did they do this??? Why didn't you?

 

[michael707767]

here is the deal from USA/AWA point of view. Better to keep those jobs now, even at a lower rate, than to allow them to be outsourced. Down the road when the airlines inevitably start to make money, you can start working to bring up those rates. If you let those jets be outsourced, you have lost that opportunity. Then someone else gets the chance to benifit from higher wages when the industry turns around.

I think a good example was Delta express. Were the pay rates for express low? Yep. Too low? Yep. Did the work rules suck? Yep. Did it stay like that forever? Nope. It took all of one contract for the Delta pilots to bring express pay right back up to the rest of the fleet. If they had given up those jobs, that opportunity was gone.

 

[FlyinPiker]

here is the deal from USA/AWA point of view. Better to keep those jobs now, even at a lower rate, than to allow them to be outsourced. Down the road when the airlines inevitably start to make money, you can start working to bring up those rates. If you let those jets be outsourced, you have lost that opportunity. Then someone else gets the chance to benifit from higher wages when the industry turns around.

I think a good example was Delta express. Were the pay rates for express low? Yep. Too low? Yep. Did the work rules suck? Yep. Did it stay like that forever? Nope. It took all of one contract for the Delta pilots to bring express pay right back up to the rest of the fleet. If they had given up those jobs, that opportunity was gone.

BRAVO!!!!!! I'm with you 707767 You you guys can talk all the smack you want. Mainline made a mistake when they stared relaxing scope. Now they are trying to reverse the trend. Is there any other way to do that than trying to beat the regionals at there own game? Was Mgmt just going to say....well I guess you've had enough. We'll start giving you airplanes again? Keep talking smack and somehow keep justifying the fact that CAL pays a first year 777 f/o ( yes they have them) $30/hr and a UPS A300 F/O $29/hr.

They are getting the airplane on the property.....hopefully DAL/NWA/CAL can do the same. Good Jobs guys. Flame away...........

Piker

 

[shamrock]

Better to keep those jobs now, even at a lower rate, than to allow them to be outsourced. Down the road when the airlines inevitably start to make money, you can start working to bring up those rates. If you let those jets be outsourced, you have lost that opportunity. Then someone else gets the chance to benifit from higher wages when the industry turns around.

I think a good example was Delta express. Were the pay rates for express low? Yep. Too low? Yep. Did the work rules suck? Yep. Did it stay like that forever? Nope. It took all of one contract for the Delta pilots to bring express pay right back up to the rest of the fleet. If they had given up those jobs, that opportunity was gone.

If only the mainline pilots had realized this when the RJ first appeared. Unfortunately, they weren't interested in anything with <70 seats, allowed them to be outsourced, and here we are.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I'm confused why an ASA pilot is so pissed about this AWA/USAir 90-seat deal....

I haven't seen any USAir/AWA affiliated regional guy come in and bitch about this. Why is it that some guys at ASA and Comair want everybody jumping on the RJDC bandwagon? It's like listening to an angry 12 year old who wants something he can't get.

How can you get mad at mainline pilots for trying to protect thier own jobs when you are just trying to to the same?

Hypocrisy anyone?

You're probably missing the point. That is, how can ALPA be negotiaing a new contract at ASA, and simultaneously grant USair the ability to fly larger airplanes, at a lower pay scale? A regional is what it is, but ALPA doesn't care when it comes down to it. They want to protect as many jobs (dues) as possible, and they'll sell out their membership to do so. Duane Worth just needs that income. Everybody else be damned.