Low Regional Minimums

[AV1ATRX]

My two cents worth is that for someone who has their heart set on flying for an airline has to find out for themselves what it's like. Telling those people how much they'll hate being in a hotel away from thier family on Christmas isn't doing any good. I know because I was one of those people. I would have never believed it until I lived it myself.

Someone posted that it changes you. I agree whole-heartedly. These people have to try it and see for themselves. Even if it is a bad experience, they can say they gave it a shot.

I do not believe in hiring low-timers, and the original poster certainly applies. That's probably because I had to instruct, fly charter, fly checks, etc. before I got my first airline job and I think people should have to do what I did. But I have to agree with what someone else said - get an airline job and get your time as soon as you can. The industry could change in a day and the minimums go back to 2000TT 500 multi and then you'll be me on 9/12/01 - begging for a CFI job somewhere to stay in an airplane. Take advantage of the current state of the industry.

That being said, of all my flying jobs it was flying King Airs that I've enjoyed the most, and if you go straight from a 172 to ERJ you'll never know how much fun you can have with other types of flying.

 

[inplaneview]

Hi!

Pinnacle guys are bidding for and getting awarded capt during indoc. Great Lakes is hiring capts off the street. TSA may be doing Capt Qualified FOs.

If u want more money, Ameristar, Cherry, and IFL I think are all hiring street captains.

cliff
YIP

Cliff, thanks for the info.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

For god's sake (and everyone elses, really), at least flight instruct before taking an airline job. I don't understand how anyone goes from a 250 hr. commerical certificate to the right seat.

All your experience is ensconced in training without real-world PIC decision making.

.

 

[JediNein]

Why flight instruct? Why be paid dismal wages if any at all, begging for one more bloody hour of multi time, or glass time, or complex time, etc. when you can be paid dismal wages while getting the multiengine turbine time?

Get the **** airline job, learn how to fly there, and move on to the majors. If you have a feather in your cap to flight instruct, do so on your off days or after you've retired.

These opportunities come around about once a decade, go for it now. Let others whine about how they had to spend XXX years making dirt before flying the big iron. Keep your chortle to yourself until you're sitting left seat at your 'retirement' airline.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

JOHN,

Rtmcfi and Leroy give great advice. Might differ slightly but they certainly thought out their responses. I'd say go the CFI route if only for the summer and early fall. Spend June-October instructing and at the very least double your 250 hours to 500 hours. You'll probably pick up some multi along the way and then re-evaluate the regionals.

When I instructed I met a heck of a lot of wealthy individuals who have helped me out in some way along my aviation journey. Many I consider friends. As one poster pointed out, you could meet someone who puts you in the right seat of a citation or King Air. That could lead to a career position for all you know. Five to six months instructing full-time is nothing. You'll walk away a far better pilot with even that short period of time teaching. Probably get to fly some really cool airplanes too.

If you followed the above plan and get hired at a regional before let's say, Thanksgiving, you'll probably have 1000 hours with 500 jet by the end of summer 2008 and although you'll have a nice beginning resume, still won't know much about flying. That's the point, thru sarcasm in many cases, that some of the more experienced flyers here are trying to communicate. Again, spend the summer and a bit more teaching and you'll come away a much better pilot for it.

Mr. I.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Why flight instruct? Why be paid dismal wages if any at all, begging for one more bloody hour of multi time, or glass time, or complex time, etc. when you can be paid dismal wages while getting the multiengine turbine time?

Get the **** airline job, learn how to fly there, and move on to the majors. If you have a feather in your cap to flight instruct, do so on your off days or after you've retired.

These opportunities come around about once a decade, go for it now. Let others whine about how they had to spend XXX years making dirt before flying the big iron. Keep your chortle to yourself until you're sitting left seat at your 'retirement' airline.

Listen here Miss JediNein,

....nevermind.

(typical girl, you won't listen or understand anyway. There's too much to explain here...besides, your gender has afforded females breaks up the wazoo so why flight instruct, right??!!!....)

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Why flight instruct? Why be paid dismal wages if any at all, begging for one more bloody hour of multi time, or glass time, or complex time, etc. when you can be paid dismal wages while getting the multiengine turbine time?

Get the **** airline job, learn how to fly there, and move on to the majors. If you have a feather in your cap to flight instruct, do so on your off days or after you've retired.

These opportunities come around about once a decade, go for it now. Let others whine about how they had to spend XXX years making dirt before flying the big iron. Keep your chortle to yourself until you're sitting left seat at your 'retirement' airline.

Learn how to fly with 50 people sitting in the back and a Captain that may have had some bad salad the night before??? Great advice!!

Develop your skills thru instructing(you'll still get opportunities to fly yourself) over the next half year and then try for a jet or turboprop. For christ sakes jedi, the guy has 250 hours!!! I have over 250 hours of instrument time and 400 hours of night time and I'm not so sure I'd be ready to put a 45,000 pound jet down in icing conditions with a blowing crosswind!

Mr. I.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I think JediNein has to be flaming. How stupid can you be to make a post like that?

Go make some pancakes and clean the toilet bowl. I like my steak medium rare.

 

[relief tube]

just realize if you go to a ********************ty regional like pinnacle, TSA or Mesa to build time for better regionals, that it's going to be just that, ********************ty.

If your goal is to get on with a better one, which it should be, force yourself to not get comfortable at at substandard regional. When you got the time leave.

Age 65 rule coming up and there always could be another slowdown. When the music stops you want to have a good chair to sit on.

 

[xjcaptain]

Get the **** airline job, learn how to fly there, and move on to the majors. If you have a feather in your cap to flight instruct, do so on your off days or after you've retired.

Great, you don't want to instruct or see the value in that. But it's O.K. for you to get on at an airline and expect your captain to INSTRUCT you and teach you how to fly there.

I'm sure the passengers in the back would love to know that while the FAR's require two pilots on their flight, only one is actually qualified and experienced enough to be there. This attitude shows the difference between having an FO that is a productive and contributing crewmember vs. a seat filler. Something I see quite a bit throughout the industry with some of the very low-time pilots........too stupid to be scared. As much as you don't want to admit it, experience counts....

 

[norskman2]

I think JediNein has to be flaming. How stupid can you be to make a post like that?

Go make some pancakes and clean the toilet bowl. I like my steak medium rare.

Hey Amish, oops, your IQ is showing!

Plenty of male pilots have posted equally stupid postings on the whole question of low-timers. Stooping to insults just shows a lack of class or intelligence or both.

 

[AV1ATRX]

I don't know JediNein personally, but she has been on this messageboard for a long time, longer than most of you have even been flying. And from I've been able to tell, she has been a flight instructor for about that long. Look back over the YEARS at her posts. Then give her crap about not flight instructing.

I don't always agree with what she posts, but get your facts straight before you start with the personal attacks.

Rant over.

I also personally believe that everyone should flight instruct, and then get some quality time flying charter or checks or whatever. Anyone who goes from 250TT to a 121 training program is going to be hanging on by the static wicks. I understand why some of the captains here are compaining about babysitting these pilots. Unless you get some real-world experience before going to an airline, that's what's going to happen. And I worry that it will lead to an accident. Only then will the FAA care that this is going on, and even then it may not change anything.

 

[blueridge71]

Get some PIC time before you go to an SIC slot.

I instructed for 1888 hours. You may not need that much! But after five years of flying jets, my 2500 hours of piston PIC (including that dual given) is still the only FAR 1 PIC that I have.

But seriously, if you go to an FO slot at a regional, you are going to be stuck there until you upgrade, because you can't go up anywhere without PIC time. On the other hand, if you get 700-1000 hours of dual given, then you can go get jet time at the regionals, then move up to a fractional or major.

 

[blueridge71]

Are any of the Regionals hiring straight into the captain seat? I'M A 7500 Part 121 guy about to be furloughed and will need a job. Hate to think about starting over again while I wait the 2 or 3 years that it might take to get recalled.

Gulfstream. If you want to spend your career babysitting newby 250 hour FOs in a turboprop with no APU in Florida.

 

[blueridge71]

Dollars to donuts, I learned a He!! of a lot more flying around in bad weather at 5000' and 110kts (and WAY more teaching other people how to do it while keeping us both out of the dirt) than I have flying the Barbie-Jet.

Ain't that the truth! I learned way more instructing than I ever did while working on my ratings.

And as far as the other half of your statement, in my part-time job as a aviation interview prep counselor, some of the weakest candidates that I have seen came from a student-to-FO factory whose initials are MPD. They were just lacking a lot of basica airmanship knowledge even though they were jet captains. I'm not trying to start a flame war, that has just been my experience.

 

[JediNein]

Someone thinks that flight schools want the 250 hour wonder pilot turned CFI that knows everything -- just ask them-- that will be around for 2 months, scare off a bunch of students, then split for an airline?

Ah, the blind leading the blind: The newly certified 250 hour CFI trying to teach a complete newbie how to fly. Some do exceptionally well, they care, pay attention to the student, conduct the required ground sessions, and really give a hoot about what happens. I'm mentoring several new CFIs right now that fit the exceptional category.

More often than not, the 250-hour wonders fit the description of the worst of the stereotypical time-builder. Working for free or below minimum wage, no ground, flying only, 70+ hours of cross country dual time without the student ever knowing what a sectional chart is or how to land, and generally treating the students like dirt, turning away countless potential pilots.

When the music stops, I don't want another flight instructor taking out their missed opportunity frustration on their students. I dislike counseling students after their instructor cancelled their lesson with no notice to go fly a multi. I dislike it even further explaining to pilots how some bit of basic aeronautical knowledge their burnt out instructor didn't teach them would have prevented an accident or an incident.

I see the students from instructors that are completely burnt out. It's not pretty. The students are on their way out of aviation, to go out and buy the boat, then spend their time trying to close down the local airport with the dangerous airplanes.

The burnt out attitude permeates the instructor, preventing the instructor from getting hired at an airline once the opportunity comes around again, which will be in another decade (on average).

If one doesn't want to flight instruct, then don't! Right now, and for a limited time, there are plenty of regionals desperate for pilots. Go fly there. Then, if you really really want to, come be a flight instructor, once you've learned how to fly. Then, once you've 'learned to fly', take your experience into the world of flight instruction.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein
5+ years Master CFI, Flight School Owner

 

[pgcfii2002]

I agree, you really need to enjoy the CFI job to be good at it.

 

[ERJpusher]

If your experience level proves to be insufficient and you wash out of training at a 121 carrier, your career is as good as over before it starts. Make sure you are comfortably ready to make the jump before you do it.


Best of luck.

 

[jws717]

Hi!

Go right away to a lower-end regional like TSA or Pinnacle that doesn't have a training contract. After 6 months or so you can get on with Horizon, Air WI, Express Jet, Skywest, etc. Chautaqua/Republic has a $2500 signing bonus and, basically, no mins if you're already RJ trained. Flying 121 ME Jet is much better for you than instructing, as far as a resume builder, and you'll be getting up to 100 hrs/month, so you'll build time fast.

Pinnacle, PSA and USA Jet are the first ones to have these official minimums:
Comm-MEL
Inst-Airplane
NO HOURLY MINS

The pilot shortage tsunami has just started hitting the airlines.

cliff
GRB

what he said

 

[Inconceivable]

Preach it Sister Jedi!

If I could make airline pay and bennies (although it is getting closer ) I would gladly flight instruct. Loved it then, love it now. But, there is always some (now with their Part 142 program) 160 hour Riddle Rat f'ing up my mojo--and pay.