Looks Like 1500 Hours May Become the New Hiring Minimum Among Other Things:

[Golden Falcon]

Yes it was...when i was getting into the civilian game (commuters they were called then) in 82 one needed at least an ATP, 2000hrs, and time on type was preferred..this is to fly a Metroliner, or a Beech 99...

 

[ofacegangsta]

he said "DC-9".

 

[ultrarunner]

Here is one part of the new bill:

Establishes comprehensive pre-employment screening of prospective pilots including an assessment of a pilot’s skills, aptitudes, airmanship and suitability for functioning in the airline’s operational environment.

I wonder if this means the end of hiring pilots without sim rides?

Assessment of pilot skills.....airmanship.....


I would say so.

 

[Draginass]

Hey draginass...you might have a little more firsthand knowledge before spouting off about something you obviously have no idea about. Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

1500 hours in 10 years averages about 144 hours per year after UPT. That's 12 hours per month, not including deployments. If you're not flying averaging at least 12 hours a month in a high performance or heavy jet, maybe you shouldn't be flying unsupervised anyway.

I agree with changing the minimum to 1500 hours for an ATP. Granted military time is more valuable than 1500 hour in a civil SE or light ME, but if it's the min, then it's the min. I believe that pilot training committements are essentially about 10 years now anyway.

As far as first hand knowledge - I think over 20 years in, including 16 in the cockpit as AC, IP, Stan-Eval, Ops Officer, + etc. fits that bill. Granted my experience is from a few years ago, but if military pilots are now flying that little currently due either to budget constraints or MC rates, then readiness must be a grave issue.

 

[pilotyip]

It is a grave issue

1500 hours in 10 years averages about 144 hours per year after UPT. That's 12 hours per month, not including deployments. If you're not flying averaging at least 12 hours a month in a high performance or heavy jet, maybe you shouldn't be flying unsupervised anyway.

The 1500 pilot had one tour EC-135's followed by staff positions. There was an accident last year with a P-3 where the PPC had 1.7 hours in last 90 days before he landed long and went of the end of the runway destroyed the airplane. With very few new airplanes coming into the military, the old ones are worn out out and the military is trying save airframe hours by not flying for training and proficiency.

 

[pilotyip]

I agree, bring it on

Pre-training screening or test, however, is completely necessary. A MD takes MCAT before entering med school, a JD takes LSAT before entering law school, and a military flight officer needs to jump through a few hoops before granted a flight slot. So why not civilian pilots? why not some sort of aptitude test before granted flight training. Flying an airliners with passengers on board is not the time or the place to weed out the weak ones.

You read me wrong, I was being somewhat sarcastic, everyone has all kinds of ideas that will limit the number of pilots to reduce supply and thereby raise wages. But many of these are convoluted controls on a free market system that would be used to their benefit. By having a very strict standardized screening test as you proposed you would limit the number by a natural selection process. I used the SAT of 1300 because it would eliminate around 80-90% of the present pilot population. BTW we gave a mini SAT type test as part of pilot screening and a high score on this test was the best single predictor of a successful pilot. It is a good tool.

Pilotyip, I am pretty sure that you think some sort of pre-training screening is an elitist idea. I surely can understand you position as a manager. Your job is to find the lowest labor and operational cost; I understand that.

Again not at all, we had the highest wages in our industry sector, in the end it was part of what made us non-competitive and caused the cut back last December.

 

[Beaver79]

Up to a year to re-write rest regs? A year is a long time; I can't help but wonder what the various airline management groups would do during that time to weaken the fatigue rules.

It's the government!!! They will have August recess, time of for the holidays, spring break...and coupled with their strong work ethic, I think a year would be a MIRACLE!

 

[Lear70]

Rebecca went to Big Bend Community College, which is a two-year program and certainly no pilot mill. She also stated on the flight recorder that she had flown in ice since she got hired and was fine with it.

Obviously, she WASN'T fine with it and, quite obviously, her experience was not up to the challenge of the situation the Captain put them in, as she missed all the signs of the approaching stall, saying only "Uuhhhh" before the shaker went off, and doing nothing when the Captain pooch-screwed the recovery...

except RETRACTING the flaps.

Incidentally, I like the idea of having a pilot skills assessment before being able to ENTER ATP training. Weed out those who have no aptitude for the profession and it will help everyone.

 

[q100]

Minor point: The a/c was nowhere near a stall, at least not until the yoke was yanked back. It was rapidly slowing to stick shaker speed, which was some 20 kts above normal as the INCR REF switch on the de-ice panel was selected on.

IMHO (5,000+ hours Dash8), the problem with their inexperience in icing conditions was not that they lost control due to icing, but this. They got so hung up on being in "so much ice" that they lost sight of job one, which is fly the dam.n airplane. The crew also did not grasp the implications of the INCR REF switch and had not been SUCCESSFULLY trained to handle an unexpected stick shaker.

In short, ICE did not cause this crash. Mostly I think it comes down to the way Colgan selected, trained, tested & treated the crew. I'm also not a big fan of their SOPS, in particular going Conditions Levers MAX as part of the gear down flow, with no verbalization.

Fact is Colgan's just about the only airline hiring, and I WILL NOT apply to them absent a change of ownership, change of management, and industry standard contract.

Rant over.

 

[rajflyboy]

Am I missing something here. Everyone is talking about how the 1500 hours will save everything and that if everyone has 1500 hours then there will never be a crash and so on. Well if we look at the pilots in question, did'nt they both have atleast 1500 hours? So how will making sure every pilot has 1500 hours change anything? It doesnt make sense the FO was a CFII, not sure on the MEI, and had over 1500hours, it just drives me crazy that everyone thinks if you have a CFII and over 1500 hours you will never make a mistake. She had little to no actual, nor had she ever seen ice to that extent, but she had over 1500 hours????? I do not think it is a matter of amount of hours but quality of hours that one needs. Where and how is the pilot supposed to gain those hours I do not have the answer but I think looking at just a ,total time, requriment will not solve the problem!

If you earn your wings so to speak. Ya know... Flight instruct.. fly some freight, maybe a little charter work, etc... When you get to 1500 hours hopefully you will have seen some Ice, Thunderstorms, etc and know how to recover from a stall.

This 250 hour to an RJ is absolute BS right now.