Logging PIC time w a Frac

Ill Mitch

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Here is my question, and this is just out of curiosity.

Say you get hired by FLOPS or someone and at the end of training you get the type. Can you log the flights you fly (like dead legs) as PIC if you fly the flight?
I know what the regs say, but how is that viewed by other companies (like World or Tradewinds or something)?
 

beechjetpilot1

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It all depends on what you plan to do in the future....if you plan to stay at Flops.....log anything you want.....if you plan to go to the airlines, most want PIC time to be the "designated PIC" time....meaning when you make captain and you are flying as a captain. Most of the guys I know logged time they were actually manipulating the controls as PIC, but again, if airlines are the way you are headed, I would keep SIC time as SIC time and not log PIC until you are designated a PIC.

Good Luck
 

old*art

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Logging PIC

It is legal per the FARs to log PIC with a type if you are the sole manipulator of the controls. Where I flew charter one of the pilots would be desigated PIC and the other typed pilot would do all the flying and log PIC also - perfectly legal. Same with flying as a safety pilot. Just be ready to break it out if you ever go anywhere else. NJA wants only PIC time when acting as designated PIC, not sole manipulator.
 

hawkerflyer

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I only log PIC when designated on the flight manifest.
 

SafetyTheSeat

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There's part 61........ If you are typed in the bird and you are pushing the sticks- flying- you can log it PIC..

Then there's FAR part 1.... Log PIC only if you are the man (or girl) on the blame line-the designated PIC.

Airlines-I'm told- perfer FAR part 1...

I log FAR part 1 when I log it....
 

nerdpilot

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always log the hours you flew as PIC you will most likely go to a charter company after you are sick of sitting sic at options for more than 4 years and some other company wants only a insurance requirement to be filled to be PIC.....
 

Clutch_Cargo

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You know... this subject comes up all the time and the answer seems to be pretty clear to me... log what you can legally log, however you can log it, and be willing to break it out when someone needs it differently. Why cheat yourself out of PIC time? Are you really only going to log PIC because some airline only considers the time you are designated PIC of a multi-engine turbine-powered aircraft over 12.5? Of course not. I can't imagine why anyone would care as long as you can explain why you log time the way you do... hell, you might even impress them with your knowledge of the FARs.

cc
 

PurpleTail

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Clutch_Cargo said:
Why cheat yourself out of PIC time? Are you really only going to log PIC because some airline only considers the time you are designated PIC of a multi-engine turbine-powered aircraft over 12.5? Of course not.
cc

Ahhh, at a FedEx interview they will. I know it is a major pain in the a$$ filling out those airline apps, each company seems to have their own rubix cube grid.

Suggestion...I had my Master logbook recorded the way Clutch_Cargo has his meaning I logged everything I could that was legal. Then I went and bought one of those cheap basic logbooks to keep up with what the airlines wanted, like designated PIC on the manifest. It made it a lot easier to fill out the apps.

Good luck.
 

Clutch_Cargo

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PurpleTail said:
Ahhh, at a FedEx interview they will. I know it is a major pain in the a$$ filling out those airline apps, each company seems to have their own rubix cube grid.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that you fill out an application with anything other than that particular airline's definition of PIC time. I'm just saying that to only log PIC under one definition might keep you from getting a job because your PIC time is less than what it could be.

I just keep one log book... and it's a paper log at that. If someone needs a total that isn't obvious in the log I figure it out for them. So, for example, if I were going to a FedEx interview, I would know my total PIC as defined by them. PurpleTail probably has a good idea in keeping separate logs, I just never went to the trouble. Using a computerized log or a spreadsheet would be another way.

cc
 

EdAtTheAirport

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Maybe the solution is to just separate it into PF and PNF, and if you seat-switch, left and right. So you would have RS-PNF, RS-PF, etc. You can argue the legalities if PIC/SIC later.
 

wingnutt

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hawkerflyer said:
I only log PIC when designated on the flight manifest.

...ditto :D
 

Tommy Boy

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Or maybe we could just do away with sic all together and everyone can log pic all the time. Maybe even the flight attendants could start logging pic also.
 

EdAtTheAirport

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Wingnutt:

When you get a job opportunity that you would qualify for BUT FOR the fact that you logged your LS-PF time as SIC, you'll reconsider your sanctimony. The airlines might not like it, but the insurance companies accept it. If it otherwise qualifies you for a better job, you're a fool for not listing it. If it's any consolation, you'd probably be a great person to golf with.
 

flyr4hire

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Just add a pt61 PIC column

to the log book. I was a SIC at FLOPS for 3 years and logged everything sic but did keep track of the legs I flew and put them in the x-tra column I made for PT 61 for the legs I flew-- just to save time if I ever needed it. When I interviewed for the charter gig I fly now, made it really easy to show and explain to everyone that needed/wanted to know.
 

a10hogplt

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here's why i log pic when i fly at options

I have the same technique...i keep a column of the legs i'm flying left seat......i think this is unique to southwest but read here...right off their site:


3Southwest Airlines defines "Pilot in Command" as the Pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight. This definition is taken from PART I of the FAR. Southwest Airlines further allows logging of PIC as follows: For an aircraft requiring a type rating: If both pilots are type rated, the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC. If only one pilot is type rated only that pilot may log PIC, regardless of seat position. For aircraft not requiring a type rating: Only the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged, as "Other Time" will not be considered. When converting taxi time a conversion factor of .3 or eighteen minutes, per leg/sortie should be used. These guidelines are imposed by Southwest Airlines for the purpose of standardizing the calculation of flight time.
 

FracCapt

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a10hogplt said:
I have the same technique...i keep a column of the legs i'm flying left seat......i think this is unique to southwest but read here...right off their site:

You may want to call SWA People Dept and ask them what their take is on that. They will tell you that they will not accept PIC time unless you are designated as PIC. I was told that the thing you quoted applies to true Co-Captain positions such as at corporate operators where there is no designated PIC, but either pilot could be dispatched with a non-typed FO.
 

wingnutt

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EdAtTheAirport said:
Wingnutt:

When you get a job opportunity that you would qualify for BUT FOR the fact that you logged your LS-PF time as SIC, you'll reconsider your sanctimony. The airlines might not like it, but the insurance companies accept it. If it otherwise qualifies you for a better job, you're a fool for not listing it. If it's any consolation, you'd probably be a great person to golf with.

haha, in my defense...99% of the times i am in a King Air, I am on the manifest as PIC. the few times im not i dont even bother logging it, as an hour or two a month really aint gonna make a hill of beans difference to me one or way the other.

...and ill take you up on that golf game anytime :D
 

Lord Wakefield

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Sole manipulator? That would seem to work if you're flying from the left seat without an autopilot doing any of the manipulating. But what if you're flying from the right seat, are you also going to log the time the captain taxis the plane while you work the radios?

Fact is, you can log whatever you want. Knew a guy who had a column for logging jumpseat time. But ask yourself what am I logging this stuff for? Is this a diary or a resume reference.

Prior to gettting your ATP, you probably followed 61 and the logging of flight time for the purpose of meeting the requirements for a higher certificate or rating But you've got your ATP now; now you're logging time to show currency and also (if your smart) to help get yourself out of the fractionals. At this point, who is going to give a poop about pt61 PIC time? And if they do, you're probably worrying too much because it sounds like they'd accept anything. Best bet, set up a column for Part 1 PIC at this point. If ,and that's a big if, you're ever ask to produce the time pt61 allows, you can always go back and add based on the legs you flew. But don't mess up your previous entries to log an entirely new way.

How are you logging cross country time? As required before your Private or as they allow once you've got your Private and you're going for your Commercial? You know all those flights between airports that didn't meet the requirement for cross country prior to getting you Private can now be counted. Does anyone care!?!?
 

WMUSIGPI

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so according to SWA all those hundreds of hours sitting in the right seat of (take your pick airplane) flight instructing I can't count as PIC and in fact all of the time instructing pre private or pre multi students noone could log that time as PIC???
 

Lord Wakefield

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WMUSIGPI said:
so according to SWA all those hundreds of hours sitting in the right seat of (take your pick airplane) flight instructing I can't count as PIC and in fact all of the time instructing pre private or pre multi students noone could log that time as PIC???

I haven't seen the SWA app in a while (can't afford a U.S. ATPL 737 type after piling up the debt here in anticipation of Kicka$$ pay) but that doesn't make sense as an instructor meets the part 1 definition.
 
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