Logging PIC time w a Frac

[FracCapt]

I have the same technique...i keep a column of the legs i'm flying left seat......i think this is unique to southwest but read here...right off their site:

You may want to call SWA People Dept and ask them what their take is on that. They will tell you that they will not accept PIC time unless you are designated as PIC. I was told that the thing you quoted applies to true Co-Captain positions such as at corporate operators where there is no designated PIC, but either pilot could be dispatched with a non-typed FO.

 

[wingnutt]

Wingnutt:

When you get a job opportunity that you would qualify for BUT FOR the fact that you logged your LS-PF time as SIC, you'll reconsider your sanctimony. The airlines might not like it, but the insurance companies accept it. If it otherwise qualifies you for a better job, you're a fool for not listing it. If it's any consolation, you'd probably be a great person to golf with.

haha, in my defense...99% of the times i am in a King Air, I am on the manifest as PIC. the few times im not i dont even bother logging it, as an hour or two a month really aint gonna make a hill of beans difference to me one or way the other.

...and ill take you up on that golf game anytime

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Sole manipulator? That would seem to work if you're flying from the left seat without an autopilot doing any of the manipulating. But what if you're flying from the right seat, are you also going to log the time the captain taxis the plane while you work the radios?

Fact is, you can log whatever you want. Knew a guy who had a column for logging jumpseat time. But ask yourself what am I logging this stuff for? Is this a diary or a resume reference.

Prior to gettting your ATP, you probably followed 61 and the logging of flight time for the purpose of meeting the requirements for a higher certificate or rating But you've got your ATP now; now you're logging time to show currency and also (if your smart) to help get yourself out of the fractionals. At this point, who is going to give a poop about pt61 PIC time? And if they do, you're probably worrying too much because it sounds like they'd accept anything. Best bet, set up a column for Part 1 PIC at this point. If ,and that's a big if, you're ever ask to produce the time pt61 allows, you can always go back and add based on the legs you flew. But don't mess up your previous entries to log an entirely new way.

How are you logging cross country time? As required before your Private or as they allow once you've got your Private and you're going for your Commercial? You know all those flights between airports that didn't meet the requirement for cross country prior to getting you Private can now be counted. Does anyone care!?!?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

so according to SWA all those hundreds of hours sitting in the right seat of (take your pick airplane) flight instructing I can't count as PIC and in fact all of the time instructing pre private or pre multi students noone could log that time as PIC???

 

[Lord Wakefield]

so according to SWA all those hundreds of hours sitting in the right seat of (take your pick airplane) flight instructing I can't count as PIC and in fact all of the time instructing pre private or pre multi students noone could log that time as PIC???

I haven't seen the SWA app in a while (can't afford a U.S. ATPL 737 type after piling up the debt here in anticipation of Kicka$$ pay) but that doesn't make sense as an instructor meets the part 1 definition.

 

[transpac]

I haven't seen the SWA app in a while (can't afford a U.S. ATPL 737 type after piling up the debt here in anticipation of Kicka$$ pay) but that doesn't make sense as an instructor meets the part 1 definition.

Not necessarily. The instructor may or may not be the FAR 1 PIC.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

I suppose if he's the safety pilot, which raises the question: Can you log SIC in a 172?

 

[Lord Wakefield]

I suppose if he's the safety pilot, which raises the question: Can you log SIC in a 172?

 

[FracCapt]

so according to SWA all those hundreds of hours sitting in the right seat of (take your pick airplane) flight instructing I can't count as PIC and in fact all of the time instructing pre private or pre multi students noone could log that time as PIC???

A CFI is fully qualified to be PIC, AND in the eyes of the FAA they are ultimately responsible for the flight. If you want to talk semantics, then remember the key word RESPONSIBLE. The person that is designated as SIC is not ultimately RESPONSIBLE for the flight....therefore, they are not PIC. They may be able to LOG PIC, but they are NOT PIC. Get it now? Clear as mud?

 

[transpac]

A CFI is fully qualified to be PIC, AND in the eyes of the FAA they are ultimately responsible for the flight. If you want to talk semantics, then remember the key word RESPONSIBLE. The person that is designated as SIC is not ultimately RESPONSIBLE for the flight....therefore, they are not PIC. They may be able to LOG PIC, but they are NOT PIC. Get it now? Clear as mud?

Shift that paradigm a tad, please. Please quote the regulation that makes a CFI responsible for a flight. There are many active CFIs without medical certificates and flight reviews who can't legally be the PIC. Such a CFI is not responsible for anything other than the quality of instruction. Nevertheless, 61.51 states that he/she can log all flight instruction given as PIC time.

 

[dogg]

Why not use your log book as a journal? Log everything that you fly....left seat, right seat, safety pilot sic, pic, x-country, night, ifr, approaches, etc...... but.... make sure that you keep seperate columns....And when you apply to an airline, ask the recruiting people for their definition of PIC, TOTAL TIME, TURBINE etc....every airline is different...and the HR department does not use the FAR's as a guide when they come up with their list of requirements. To some, pilot in command is defined as "captain time" and to others they use FAR 1/61. Also while you are checking with them about requirements, find out what the mean by a college degree. There is a large difference there as well. To some, you have to have physically attended a college and to others you can do it all through correspondence......and the place for these answers is not flight info . Go straight to the source, get the answers and plan accordingly.......

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Why not use your log book as a journal? Log everything that you fly....left seat, right seat, safety pilot sic, pic, x-country, night, ifr, approaches, etc...... but.... make sure that you keep seperate columns....And when you apply to an airline, ask the recruiting people for their definition of PIC, TOTAL TIME, TURBINE etc....every airline is different...and the HR department does not use the FAR's as a guide when they come up with their list of requirements. To some, pilot in command is defined as "captain time" and to others they use FAR 1/61. Also while you are checking with them about requirements, find out what the mean by a college degree. There is a large difference there as well. To some, you have to have physically attended a college and to others you can do it all through correspondence......and the place for these answers is not flight info . Go straight to the source, get the answers and plan accordingly.......

Great idea, but a lot easier said than done. I log every leg with a brief description and have been able to extrapolate acccurately for most applications. It takes a lot of time though.

A word to the wise from recent personal experience. Those of you who are applying from NJA; the company ,as their way of complying with PRIA, will send your prospective employer a printout of your flying at NJA. Only that time during which you were assigned as the PIC will be reflected as such. Don't find yourself trying to explain any large disparities with the interviewer.