Logbook accuracy

[timeoff]

I had an instructor that used to own his own Aztec. He told me that he logged around 3-4 hours a week in it. Problem was, the plane never moved from the ramp. It had mx issues and two flat tires for as long as I could remember. I guess he figured that since he was the owner, he could pretty much get away with it. He is at a regional now.

Knew another guy that was working on his comm that would always round up to the next whole hour when he flew by himself. It was his way of "saving money".

Have you ever come across anyone that has fradulent or padded time?

 

[honeycomb]

Yes...

I have met a few cheats. Some got caught. Some did not.

I have personally got over a couple of hundred, to maybe even a thousand or so, ride a long hours with my father that will never see a log book. And, for good reason.

Ethics are easy to spot. There seems to be Little or No Shame in general not just in aviation. I think people do it once and it gets easier.

I am not condoning there actions. On the contrary....I despise anyone who has....but as a rational person I know it goes on.

As a side note, I have a military buddy who will take your stated time and take half as an accurate number. He is also used to only counting flight time...just like in the military (I guess)...and no taxi time. That may be his reasoning. But, after you said this...it got me thinking that the real reason was because of un-ethical pilots.

Anyway....I don't give pilots like that (cheats that is) the time of day.

 

[Kingair1181]

Not sure how much of it went on in the past but it seems many of the younger pilots today are doing it. I know of at least 2 pilots who I went to flight school with who inked in their log books til they had their 1200 hours. Probably was they inked in in in a little over a year when I know most of the time they were sitting around an FBO waiting for students. They said although they had only flown X number of hours they had X times 2 hours of experience so they felt it was justified. Now one of them is at a regional and the other is flying cargo. I'll admit I am a little jealous since I still have a ways to go to get there but at least I know that my time is correct. Probably took me an extra 6 months to a year to get it but oh well....

I have a feeling that in the future more and more pilots are going to have their log books screened for this practice because companies can't afford not to.

 

[landlover]

its been going on since at least vietnam. i met an old retired eastern guy that owned a plane, a rockwell commander. went flying with him a few times cause he lost his medical. he told me most guys that came back from vietnam just logged what they needed(usually more than they actually had) to get an interview and that i should log as much time as i needed in his airplane.

 

[SPilot]

Sure I've seen this going on. One hour flight suddenly becomes 5 hour xc, or a backseat ride suddenly becomes PIC. I hope they all get their books verified against FBO or flight school records!

 

[Way2Broke]

I met a guy once that said "Fly what you want, log what you need." He was a private owner talking about insurance minimums. While it would make my life much easier to do so I am not a liar. This is the one thing that keeps setting me back in aviation, but I am hoping that in the long haul my honestly will pay off. I remember the days when I was excited to get .5 in a twin. To come from that to where I am today I take pride in.

 

[A Squared]

Her's a couple of pilots that it didn't work real well for:


http://www.ntsb.gov/o_n_o/docs/AVIATION/4008.PDF

Notice that the penalty is revocation. THat's where they take your pilots certificates aweay and you aren't a pilot any more. If you want to be a pilot, you have to earn the certificates over again, if they let you.

 

[hyflyt560]

I knew a guy who didn't lie, but certainly stretched the truth. For a job at some regional eons ago, he was asked how many multiengine hours he had. He didn't lie and told them the number, which apparantly was enough to get the job. All but whatever it took to get his airplane multi rating were in a UH-60 Blackhawk.

Related question: How do you log your night time? I know some people go through the trouble of figuring out nautical twighlight etc. I've always just used the one hour after/one hour before sunset.

 

[NavajoKing]

I have heard of some guys logging yearly averages instead of logging every flight.

 

[NavajoKing]

when you fly cargo it's always night, so it makes it easy.

 

[N60OSU]

My company's manifests uses on out/in times rather than out/off/on/in. Obviously that then includes taxi time as flight time. It is how I'm paid and how the company tracks my flight time against limitations so it's how I log it in my own logbook. I don't have long taxi times as I fly overnight so my conscience is clear but my question is will I get any grief in an interview if the company uses the four time system?

 

[tomcat]

No, you can log engine start (out) to engine shut down (in). No need to correct for taxi time.

 

[Almerick07]

I recently added up my flight times and found a 9 hour discrepancy somewhere in my total time, I know it is in the logbook i used when I was getting all my ratings but havnt had the time to go through it and find the mistakes. Any suggestions on how I should correct it?

 

[Snakum]

I've seen people log sole manip PIC in King Airs for the entire flight time, even though they only flew the empty leg. Log PIC in a Baron when they were working the radio. Some have had ATPs sign off flight time in King Airs Part 91 even though they weren't flying with an MEI. And log huge numbers of hours on single engine when they were just riding. If I logged like some of these folks I'd have a whole lot more than my puny 300+ hours over eight years. I'd have about 50 hours of King Air and Baron time already. :nuts:

Whether or not anyone else ever finds out about their time, and honestly I doubt they'll ever get busted on it, if I did it ... I'd know. And that's why I don't do it. I'm never going to stutter and stammer in an interview and the time in my log book will always accurately reflect my current abilities, more or less. I could log 500 hours of multi time tomorrow but as soon as I got in an airplane with an experienced pilot ... he'd know it instantly.

The time will come, and the experience gained while building it will be invaluable, and it might possibly even save my life one day.

 

[ackattacker]

Unfortunately I know several people who pad their log books. I've always been meticulous about correct legal logbook times, but there is actually still a few hours in my log book I wish I could go back and change (downwards). When you are low time and clawing your way towards some goal it's easy to want to log every hour possible if you can at all justify it. So you get the PIC time when you were safety pilot, the "dual received" when you were flying straight and level in somebody's Citation, etc. And you see all kinds of discussions on boards like this about what's legal to log. The problem is that once you get to a certain level those "technically legal" hours no longer help you they actually hurt you because you have to try to defend them in an interview. Example, I have seen people kicked out of interviews because they logged PIC time in a King Air and didn't know King Air systems. After seeing that I no longer ask myself "is this legal to log?" I ask myself "Do I want to have to explain this on an interview?".

As for simply padding the time, that does piss me off because of all the hard work and money that went into my time. I don't like cheats. But the unfortunate answer is that it is probably rampant.