Lobby for Age 70!

[Fubijaakr]

If you want cognative testing, then test EVERYONE. That's what I mean by one set of standards. Remember, when you tighten things up, perhaps YOU won't be able to pass.

 

[goahead]

Hi!

Pipejockey:

And, even with all the above liabilities, the pilots aged 60-65 have the safest accident record. So, what does that say about YOUR flying abilities?

You must have missed that stat class in college, grouping a very, very small group of guys isn't a comparision.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

You must have missed that stat class in college, grouping a very, very small group of guys isn't a comparision.

You must have missed geography class at college, age 65 have been around for a while all over the world, there are many pilots flying safely today over 60 years of age.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is only an issue due to the state of the industry today, if the airlines where hiring 80 pilots a month as before 9/11 you wouldn't hear a peep from anyone

 

[scoreboardII]

if the airlines where hiring 80 pilots a month as before 9/11 you wouldn't hear a peep from anyone

Which is what they would be doing if folks were retiring...

 

[Full of LUV]

Which is what they would be doing if folks were retiring...

ding...ding....ding....

 

[waveflyer]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is only an issue due to the state of the industry today, if the airlines where hiring 80 pilots a month as before 9/11 you wouldn't hear a peep from anyone

Dude - are you listening?
you're exactly right- the timing and the cold turkey implementation that guaranteed furloughs at most airlines is EXACTLY the beef most pilots have with this rule change.

 

[eaglesview]

Wave, you are correct, the cold turkey implementation is the problem. However most of the young guys take that frustration and start blaming the older guys.

 

[Truckdriver]

If you want cognative testing, then test EVERYONE. That's what I mean by one set of standards. Remember, when you tighten things up, perhaps YOU won't be able to pass.

Why don't I have to have an EKG now since I'm under 35? That test is a waste of money and time for anyone under age 35 so we are not required to do it. Same goes for cognitive skills testing. At age 50 your cognitive abilities MAY start to deteriorate. Before that 99.9% of the population does not experience a decline unless you were already lacking in cognitive skills. So doing that test for everyone down to the age of 23 for ATP applicants would be a waste of time and money for 27 years worth of medicals.

We don't have the same standards now with the EKG and first class medicals lasting longer for the young guys, and you don't need to have the same standard in cognitive skills testing. If your over age 50, I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just saying you are much more likely to lose cognitive reasoning skills than a guy who is 30. You know that as well as I do.

 

[spacecadet1]

I doubt one can draw many conclusions from the statistics (either way, more safe or less safe). There are just so many other factors, and frankly, there just aren't enough accidents for good statistics. Should there be cognitive testing for everyone? Maybe not a bad idea. We all age differently. But one thing is certain: cognition does not improve with age (just like physical ability). It is a sad inevitable fact. It may be that with modern aircraft (with all the warning systems and redundancy), the slight degradation in ability just isn't relevant (and can be compensated for with experience).
From my own personal experience in the airplane and the sim (no Chuck Yeager here), there are some older guys that should probably retire (some under 60, some above). But we help them out, the check airman give them some leeway out of respect, etc. And they plod on. We all have stories about these situations. I'm not talking about the usual good CRM were we catch each other's mistakes (regardless of age). I think most of us have seen this.

 

[The Prussian]

Which is what they would be doing if folks were retiring...

Which brings us to the main issue...

 

[The Prussian]

if the airlines where hiring 80 pilots a month as before 9/11 you wouldn't hear a peep from anyone

Which brings us to the main issue...

 

[Flopgut]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is only an issue due to the state of the industry today, if the airlines where hiring 80 pilots a month as before 9/11 you wouldn't hear a peep from anyone

I completely disagree. This thesis of yours is meaningless. Doesn't matter what the issue is when it's handled the way this one was. The membership's majority was against it, Prater refused to listen and engaged in misleading subterfuge to get his way. Then went on to avail it to a less than fully legitimate session of Congress and get it passed in the middle of the night. (we'll never know what he actually paid for that) He stabbed the recently retired in the back, he stabbed the junior in the back, and I don't think anyone doubts he would have stabbed his own mother in the back to get this done.

It doesn't matter what the issue is. When things get handled like this no one wins but the cake eaters. Of course the cake eaters aren't upset at all....

 

[waveflyer]

Wave, you are correct, the cold turkey implementation is the problem. However most of the young guys take that frustration and start blaming the older guys.

Are you saying that older pilots weren't the one's responsible for that. They lobbied with a sense of urgency: "EVERY DAY our most experienced pilots are forced to retire by a policy that is arbitrary and age discrimination!! Every Day! It's not fair- WE MUST CHANGE THIS NOW!!!

who was it saying those lines?

Who was lobbying for that with no thought to the effect it would have on the new hires who gave up good jobs and seniority to join their major?

 

[waveflyer]

So now- there is a group of young to middle aged pilots who are planning to lobby the FAA to make age 60 the max age to hold a Captain seat.

Thoughts?

My critique to my generation is a typical one- we let others take action then complain when our interests are not advocated. We let the political process happen to us- naively thinking that the older generation will look out for us-

We must act.

 

[pilotyip]

naively thinking

...............naively thinking ................We must act.

naively thinking that any pilot group will look out for any other pilot group, everyman for himself what is best for me is best for everyone.