Lobby for Age 70!

[Truckdriver]

I'm all for no age limit if they require the medical standards to become much tougher and they throw AME's in jail if they don't follow the standards. If we did that then we would have 80% of the pilot population medical out by age 60 anyways. Even if we forced the AME's to follow the current standarads we have, there would be alot of guys medical out early. I heard a rumor that there are like 25 AME's who do more than 60% of all medical exams in the country. Wonder why those guys get so much business??

 

[Kalifornia]

What will suck is when you work until your 65 to get a few extra bucks in that retirement account then die when your 68 because you worked an extra 5 years. I don't care what you say, someone who flies for 30+ years will die on average earlier than someone who sits at a desk for 30+ years. I know lots of retired guys who were dead before 70 (one who died this past week at age 68) so I have no intention of working past age 60 to pump up the retirement account so my family can line my casket with gold. I plan on flying for 30 years, retiring before age 60, then running out of retirement money around age 75 because I'll probably be dead before then due to stress this job puts on the body anyways.

Somebody gets it. Get rid of any mandatory retirement age? Unamerican. Age discrimination is in the US Constitution as it sets the minimum age to be president at 35. The US government sets a max age for Air Traffic Controllers at 56 extended to an absolute maximum of 61. Auto insurers set rates based on age. As for AME's, it takes a lot of sickly talent to fail an exam as the doctors that get the most business are not the ones putting pilots through a NASA equivalent physical analysis.

Edit: That's funny. I posted this and Truckdriver had already posted similar very valid argument on AME's.

 

[Flying-Corporal]

Hi!

Pipejockey:

And, even with all the above liabilities, the pilots aged 60-65 have the safest accident record. So, what does that say about YOUR flying abilities?

I am curious as to where you got this statistics? Just because airplane don't crash and you dont read it in the NYTimes doesn't mean what you're saying is true. Safest record to what??? And what do you know about HIS flying abilitites??? What a non-sense post.

How about we put handicap people in cockpits and let them fly with normal co-pilots for year. A then a year from now make a definite conclusion that medical license is not required for a pilot job.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The FAA has compared the accident rate, per 100,000 hours of flying, for age 60-65 pilots, and compared it to age <=60 pilots. Age 61-65 have the lowest accident rate.

Now that we have -121 pilots over age 60, we can now compare the -121 61-65, with the -121 <=60. I am almost 100% sure that the -121 study(ies) will corroborate the earlier studies, and the 61-65 pilots will be safest.

Pipejockey was making up a bunch of generalizations and stereotyping the over 60 guys. Not very nice!

cliff
LFW

 

[boxjockey]

Cliff,

You are funny! I have flown with several over 60er's recently, and I can tell you most are stuck in D-TO2!

box

 

[Fubijaakr]

I'm all for no age limit if they require the medical standards to become much tougher and they throw AME's in jail if they don't follow the standards.

As for AME's, it takes a lot of sickly talent to fail an exam as the doctors that get the most business are not the ones putting pilots through a NASA equivalent physical analysis.

One level of medical for all. If you want to up the standards, fine. But don't start whining when YOU lose YOUR medical at 45 because you don't measure up.

 

[Moon-dog]

Of course they have the safest record, they sit on their a$$ at home an get paid for not flying. No wonder most majors have been in and out of BK court. Anyone who has had a stats class can tell you, "I can make the numbers say anything I want." The truth is, as humans age their mental facilities and physical reaction time slows. If you don't like that tough sh!t, because its a fact. You are not as safe as you think you are, I know that you wholeheartedly think you are, but you are not!! Sorry, to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[fullsail]

It's in the works.

Not 'age 70' though.

Within 5 years there will be NO age limit...

Just like every other job.
What about the furloughees? Too bad, so sad? I get another 5 years added to my furlough? Yeah, that's fair. Why not wait until everyone is back on property before doing something like this?

 

[Flopgut]

Age 65 was written to include the provision that if you were over 60, but under 65, you could come back, but you could not sue for your original seniority. I believe it is not lost on those who wrote the rule that the number of pilots who came back under those terms is basically zero. So oversight understands that this retirement issue was never really about discrimination, or anything close to legitimate. It was about seniority and about taking seniority from other pilots outside the collective bargaining agreements.

Age 70 might be considered, but basically the pro age 65 crowd have already done it in. They've revealed themselves as nothing but greedy without even a modicum of professionalism.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

How bout an f-in weight limit?

 

[Mamma]

How bout an f-in weight limit?

I agree that being a fat pilot is not cool but the only limits on weight should be with the FAs. They should be discriminated against for age and size. I say size 6 and age 26. Then buh-bye! Just a thought.

 

[waveflyer]

How bout an f-in weight limit?

Seriously... Right?

For flt attendants too....

No age limit is fine- but I had to wait til 23 to get an ATP even though my seniority would have held the left seat- so I think there should be an upper limit for captains as well- let them decay in the right seat where they'll have an experienced captain who can watch them

 

[waveflyer]

I agree that being a fat pilot is not cool but the only limits on weight should be with the FAs. They should be discriminated against for age and size. I say size 6 and age 26. Then buh-bye! Just a thought.

Nice! Good timing Mamma!

- except some of the sexiest flt attendants I've had have been in the +/-40 range- I wouldn't trade them for any 20 something who hasn't learned a proper blowjob yet.... Or who doesn't have the guts to ask for what she wants...Just sayin- I'm not as into teaching as much as I once was

 

[pipejockey]

Hi!

The FAA has compared the accident rate, per 100,000 hours of flying, for age 60-65 pilots, and compared it to age <=60 pilots. Age 61-65 have the lowest accident rate.

Now that we have -121 pilots over age 60, we can now compare the -121 61-65, with the -121 <=60. I am almost 100% sure that the -121 study(ies) will corroborate the earlier studies, and the 61-65 pilots will be safest.

Pipejockey was making up a bunch of generalizations and stereotyping the over 60 guys. Not very nice!

cliff
LFW

I wasn't stereotyping or generalizing anything! I have flown with these old buzzards who have among other things, walked out of the cockpit with an engine running after having indicated that it was off during the appropriate checklist leaving me to cover their sorry a**(I guess they must leave the car running when they get home as well), forgetting to have the 2nd engine started when within moments from being cleared for takeoff leaving me to cover their a** again because they forgot to finish completing the taxi ck. list, lining up on the wrong runway on approach, etc etc etc. If they want to stay flying past 60, boot them over to the right seat! They have no business being in charge at such an advanced age.

 

[pipejockey]

How bout an f-in weight limit?

Exactly!! Some of these guys are so out of shape they could never egress out the cockpit window in the event of an emergency. Not to mention looking totally unprofessional.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

pipejockey,

I'm in total agreement. I've posted on this board in the past about flying Part 135 jet charter with 5 seperate 60+ guys and how basically 3 out of 5 sucked and showed signs of aging. Did it sway the old goats here? Not a bit. They're like drunks who think they are good enough to drive.
I've also posted about my experiences flying with many nearing age 60 at my airline. The deterioration was uneven of course. The minority were sharp as any 20 year old with the judgement of experience along with being in excellent shape. The rest had started the slide.
I've also started seeing the slide in a few FO's nearing age 60. Everything seems to happen slower with them. A simple transition in in reading a checklist down low to moving a switch in the overhead panel seems to take forever although it's OK for a checkride.

The guys throwing the responsibility here are abject fools or not really commercial pilots. We all know that AME's run mills that cannot test the cognitive skills even if they were threatened with jail. Even the Mayo clinic would have a tough time catching a geezer who games the tests.

The other issue is checkrides. Old guys get their sim checks at 10 am on a canned profile that is well know in advanced and practiced for the previous days after getting a good nights rest along with a nice cup of coffee in the brief. I am well versed on the effects of a 15 hour day with some codger trying to fly a NDB approach in a Lear 25 at 2:30 am into a snowy county airport.

Everybody starts the mental and physical slide. It sucks. I've seen it in fellow pilots and family members. Arbitrary numbers are a fact of life in every facet of society.

 

[mozzer]

Until an extremely extensive cognitive and reflex test is done in order to pass a medical for these 60+ year old ancients, it would be foolhardy to increase this age yet again. Or even worse, have no limit at all. These old guys move like they are in slow motion, and their minds often times get like mush. They just can't respond appropriately in an at times, extremely fast paced and stressful environment.

Well they shouldn't be down at the hotel bar anyway!

 

[cldsfr79]

I don't think there should be any mandatory retiremnt age. I think the AME should be held acountable for issueing a medical.

I'm sensing sarcasm but we do have this issue over in the 135 industry. There are some 70+ers. Just as long as they keep seeing "Dr. Hand Shake" they keep flying. Never mind that some can't hear that well, can't really see as well even with their glasses and some appear to fall asleep in cruise.

 

[relief tube]

don't know about you all, but I like being home....and apparently Im one of the few airline pilots that has hobbies. If I'm 55 and I have enough to retire, I can't wait to open up a spot for someone else.

I'll spend 5 mins a week while Im waiting for the tee time to read boards about current pilots bitching about everything.

 

[jtf]

I've flown with lots of guys over 60 and haven't seen any problems with any of them. The bad pilots I've flown with come from 20s to 50s. I'm sure there are plenty of crappy 60+ year old pilots, but there are plenty of crappy pilots at every age category. I have another 30 or so years of flying left and I don't mind the old dudes- they have the experience edge that can usually make up for the lost quickness that is almost never needed in this job unless you are a fighter pilot or something. Almost every emergency situation we all train for requires the pilot to calmly fly the airplane and fix the problem. Modern aircraft are almost made for monkeys to fly. The ugliest V1 cuts I've ever seen are routinely younger pilots. I much prefer the old guys experience to keep my butt out of trouble. There are almost always 2 of us in the cockpit and I defy ANY of you to say you haven't made a mistake that the other guy didn't point out at one time or another. It is your job to keep an eye on the other pilot no matter how old he or she is. Pretty much every mistake quoted in this thread that an old guy supposedly made I have watched young guys make. I would support a more stringent medical for those over 60, but for myself I want the decision to retire to be MY choice and nobody else's. Pensions are almost gone already and most of us better pray they let us fly until we die unless somehow we are able to collectively get the pay back to levels that allow a good life before and during retirement. Good luck with that the way things are looking. I'm sorry if this harms younger pilots on furlough and younger pilots who can't upgrade (including me), but that's part of the game.