Lobby for Age 70!

[Flopgut]

This issue has shattered the relationship between the union, the senior membership and the junior membership. The age +60 cake-eaters lash out at the slightest critique of the situation so emphatically it is as though the rule never changed. It is as though these extra five years aren't of benefit to them at all. How can an age 70 effort be anything but a forgone conclusion? Mark my words, the guys working past 60 right now are squandering this benefit. In 2.5 years we'll be back at square one with these bozos.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Dude - are you listening?
you're exactly right- the timing and the cold turkey implementation that guaranteed furloughs at most airlines is EXACTLY the beef most pilots have with this rule change.

Dude?

Then please stop making this a safety issue because it isn't and then maybe we can have an honest discussion on the matter.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

People act as if this age change happened by surprise....yet, when the ICAO allowed pilots to fly over the age of 60 in foreign airlines, how many of you went to visit your elected representatives in DC to complain ?

When your own elected representatives in DC allowed pilots of foreign airlines over the age of 60 to fly in our airspace....you knew...YOU KNEW the barn door had opened...but...what did you do about it? did you call your elected rep in DC to let them know how you felt about it? If they disagreed, did you vote against them ? Is that all you did? Did you contribute to their opponents campaigns? Did you volunteer to work on a campaign to keep the guy that made this happen out of office?

How about when your congressman and senators voted ( unanimously) to let it actually happen in the US ? What did you do about it? Did you just vote against them? If you did, is that all you did ? There wasn't more you could do ?

As Pilots, we are decision-makers. BUT...when it comes to our careers, we bitch, whine and complain, but are content to let someone else do the heavy lifting.

Pilots...we are sometimes our own worst emenies.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Dude - are you listening?
you're exactly right- the timing and the cold turkey implementation that guaranteed furloughs at most airlines is EXACTLY the beef most pilots have with this rule change.

It all started with the swapa sellouts. When the furloughs start at LUV this fall, the junior pilots like waveflyer can look no further than the swapa sellouts for being the catalyst for "age 65." These guys would sell their sould to the devil.

 

[waveflyer]

naively thinking that any pilot group will look out for any other pilot group, everyman for himself what is best for me is best for everyone.

And yet that's not the premise of unions now is it Yip?

 

[no1pilot2000]

Do we hear 75....80....85.....90...95....100?! The final bid for an airline captain mandatory retirement age is______????

 

[Moon-dog]

Most of the over 60 guys couldn't pass a JAA class I. I am not sure all of the under 60 guys could either, its a two day ordeal. If they want to do away with a number, then they have to tighten the AME standards. And yes it IS a SAFETY issue.

 

[pilotyip]

Unity?

And yet that's not the premise of unions now is it Yip?

yes it is, Unions are dominated by the senior guys who vote to protect themselves to the determint of the juniors, do I have post a bunch of times this has happened? "B" scale, scope causes that screwed regionals forever, SLI during mergers, etc. In every economic transaction everyone looks out for their own best interest, screw everyone else. Unity is defined Yes you can be part of the 'brother hood" if you agree with me"

 

[Flopgut]

yes it is, Unions are dominated by the senior guys who vote to protect themselves to the determint of the juniors, do I have post a bunch of times this has happened? "B" scale, scope causes that screwed regionals forever, SLI during mergers, etc. In every economic transaction everyone looks out for their own best interest, screw everyone else. Unity is defined Yes you can be part of the 'brother hood" if you agree with me"

BS. What about the CAL strike? Prater & company were junior then and only agreed to "fight" Lorenzo if the union underwent assessments to fund his strike pay. That money didn't grow on trees, and the amounts were quite large on an individual basis. (maybe you paid some?) That's not only an example of senior taking care of the junior in ALPA, that's a case Prater turning his back to a unique responsibility he should realize is his to repay those who are now junior.

The point you are making is unique to guys like Prater and yourself and your generation. When you guys are done with this we"ll all be better off.

 

[dcfu69]

I agree that being a fat pilot is not cool but the only limits on weight should be with the FAs. They should be discriminated against for age and size. I say size 6 and age 26. Then buh-bye! Just a thought.

EXACTLY!!! NO MORE FAT CREW MEMBERS!!!! You look unprofessional and disgusting! I am so sick and tired of seeing overweight pilots and FA's.. it is a horrible image to the flying public. Here's an idea: PACK a HEALTHY lunch, stop eating Wendy's(BK MCD, Taco bell, etc), Hit the GYM instead of the BAR at the hotel, and lead a better more active lifestyle!..... off soap box

 

[pilotyip]

BS. What about the CAL strike? Prater & company were junior then and only agreed to "fight" Lorenzo if the union underwent assessments to fund his strike pay. That money didn't grow on trees, and the amounts were quite large on an individual basis. (maybe you paid some?) That's not only an example of senior taking care of the junior in ALPA, that's a case Prater turning his back to a unique responsibility he should realize is his to repay those who are now junior.

The point you are making is unique to guys like Prater and yourself and your generation. When you guys are done with this we"ll all be better off.

Yes I admit everything that is wrong with the airline industry is my fault. And my experience at my two union airline pilot jobs, now out business, as a junior pilot had nothing to do with my feelings about how effective unions can be a changing reality.

 

[waveflyer]

The proverbial race to the bottom has but one root cause- the selling out of the junior for the advantage of the senior. The senior will benefit as soon as they begin looking out for the junior. When junior pilots are furloughed or struggling financially- Virgin America has no problem finding really good, experienced pilots willing to work at their pay.

Some understand this- Baby boomers who have lived on the backs of their parent's sacrifices and now their children's future sacrifices - DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS. They actually believe they deserve everything they've gotten.

 

[jtf]

How are pilots going to retire at age 60 if the age limit were to be magically brought back to that? How many pensions are left? How many pilots, even if they have been captains for the last 10 years have enough saved to truly retire at age 60 after all the pay cuts post 9/11? It does suck that some junior pilots are furloughed due to age 65 and that many others have an extra 5 years as an FO, but as the pensions have mostly gone away and are not something to trust to last all of retirement even if they didn't, most of us will need the extra 5 years and preferably more to afford retirement. Maybe those extra years of work will take some off the backside of our lives, but at least we will be able to afford to live until death. Do you really want to find a new career at age 60 or 65 when you realize that you don't really have enough saved? If wages can be cranked back up again to levels that will allow us all to save enough for retirement without pensions, I'd be glad to retire at age 60 as my choice. Good luck all with retirement- we ALL need a lot of luck to save it up and not have the markets or our own poor investments sink us.

 

[pilotyip]

How are pilots going to retire at age 60 if the age limit were to be magically brought back to that? How many pensions are left? How many pilots, even if they have been captains for the last 10 years have enough saved to truly retire at age 60 after all the pay cuts post 9/11? It does suck that some junior pilots are furloughed due to age 65 and that many others have an extra 5 years as an FO, but as the pensions have mostly gone away and are not something to trust to last all of retirement even if they didn't, most of us will need the extra 5 years and preferably more to afford retirement. Maybe those extra years of work will take some off the backside of our lives, but at least we will be able to afford to live until death. Do you really want to find a new career at age 60 or 65 when you realize that you don't really have enough saved? If wages can be cranked back up again to levels that will allow us all to save enough for retirement without pensions, I'd be glad to retire at age 60 as my choice. Good luck all with retirement- we ALL need a lot of luck to save it up and not have the markets or our own poor investments sink us.

Nicely said, BTW you forgot the part about the Gov't declaring anyone making over $100K as rich and taxing them into lifelong employment in order to eat. So that those who do not pay taxes can eat.

 

[Freebrd]

EXACTLY!!! NO MORE FAT CREW MEMBERS!!!!

But but but I love pasta and Mex food. And beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

 

[Flopgut]

How are pilots going to retire at age 60 if the age limit were to be magically brought back to that? How many pensions are left? How many pilots, even if they have been captains for the last 10 years have enough saved to truly retire at age 60 after all the pay cuts post 9/11? It does suck that some junior pilots are furloughed due to age 65 and that many others have an extra 5 years as an FO, but as the pensions have mostly gone away and are not something to trust to last all of retirement even if they didn't, most of us will need the extra 5 years and preferably more to afford retirement. Maybe those extra years of work will take some off the backside of our lives, but at least we will be able to afford to live until death. Do you really want to find a new career at age 60 or 65 when you realize that you don't really have enough saved? If wages can be cranked back up again to levels that will allow us all to save enough for retirement without pensions, I'd be glad to retire at age 60 as my choice. Good luck all with retirement- we ALL need a lot of luck to save it up and not have the markets or our own poor investments sink us.

This point of view seriously sucks! Yes, I do expect you to go get a different career at 60. That's what I would expect to have to do. That's apparantly what Pilotyip has done. What's so special about you?

I don't think any of you really understood that it was somewhat remarkable to just make it to 60. Age 65 isn't going to help in the long run. There are going to be no less of us who might find ourslves needing to work past retirement. All that has happened is a very few have taken an inordinate benefit in the near term.

I asked Prater why he changed age 60. He told me "because we're all in this together". He refused to explain to me how "together" it is to have basically the same number of pilots working past 60 as there who are furloughed. If we're so "together" then age 60+ pilots should not be bidding their full seniority and there should be no more allowed to fly than there would be to make certain than there are none involuntarily furloughed.

 

[waveflyer]

But but but I love pasta and Mex food. And beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

Get fit- do a handful of pushups and situps to maintain and te extra sex you'll get will burn off all the beer you want-

And you won't split your pants in front of your pax climbing into your office...

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Most of the over 60 guys couldn't pass a JAA class I. I am not sure all of the under 60 guys could either, its a two day ordeal. If they want to do away with a number, then they have to tighten the AME standards. And yes it IS a SAFETY issue.

You could get that physical right now. Just go to the AME that nobody goes to. there is a reason that nobody goes to that guy....cuz his own standards are very "tight". All you have to do is ask around, you'll find out who that AME is.

When you go to your flight physical now, what do you ask your AME to do that others don't do? Is it over and above what the FAA requires ?

 

[FlyinGuy]

I am in good shape and I try to take care of myself. That being said, I want an AME that just rubber stamps my medical. When/if I have medical concerns I go to my own doctor. I do not go to my AME to find out what is wrong with me, I go because it is what the FAA requires.

I suspect that is how most other pilots approach their medical.

 

[Freebrd]

the extra sex you'll get will burn off all the beer you want-

And you won't split your pants in front of your pax climbing into your office...

extra sex??? you mean that solo time??? My pants don't split 'cause I buy a larger size every year! :laugh: