Lights on Airliners for ice?

[icefr8dawg]

Ice Detector on a caravan?! C'mon man, like it isn't obvious?! Can't see ice worth a damm on my plane but the brits gave us a cute spinny gadget that lets ya know when to ooze the juice

 

[TurboS7]

I just open up my window and stick my head out, works great, just like the DC-3 days.

 

[TurboS7]

In England we used to have a bunch of 600 hour wonder first officers, they worked great as long as the automation worked, take the autopilot away, turn off the FD and ask them to do a visual approach and it was the beginning of a death spiral.

 

[TIS]

zapped again

 

[Gearmunky]

Ya know what? You've been told this before in other threads and I'll say it again: I didn't start out slamming you. I slammed the concept of what you're doing at your level of experience but you had to get your skirt all blown up about it and take it like a personal attack. Well, it wasn't so how's about we just agree that I won't use you as an SIC in MY G-IV and leave it at that. I don't appreciate your attitude OR you inexperience.

Ok then if you already said it, than what makes you think that saying it again makes your points any more valid? I've been defending this crap ever since I got on here and all I want to do is talk about what I do for a living with other people of the same interests. You can't learn everything at FSI, you know.

After all, it would be NICE to know that somebody with 11k hours is on here to HELP someone like me, when I keep getting intermittent CAS messages and can't figure them out. Or need to know how to do something I didn't learn somewhere else.

Sorry to take it personally, but this thread started out innocently about ice lights and it turned into this. Just like a few months ago when I asked a simple question about how to professionally tell your boss "no" and I ended up defending my credentials once again. I get blasted for the airplane I fly, how childish is that?

Anyway, you've obviously read some things I've written and you, just as obviously, don't like hearing that it's not a good idea for low time civilian-trained pilots to be in the right seat of an airplane like a G-IV. That you don't like hearing it doesn't make me wrong.

I agree, there are plenty of people that I have flown with that could use a rude awakening as to how serious this airplane is, it's not a simple airplane.

But let's be honest - plenty of idiots DO indeed pass Flight Safety courses.

Couldn't agree with you more, believe me!

Yup! I'm sure you are. I know it says so on your little blue and white card in your wallet.

If you only knew.

What makes you think that's what I'm trying to do? And why are you so nervous about it?

It's a small world

I'm doing exactly that but some low-time pud-knocker keeps telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about because he doesn't like hearing what's being said.

I never said you don't know what your talking about, that was you chief. Language is easily, as in this case, misunderstood over the internet. I like anyone else in this business doesn't like anyone else telling them the way things should and shouldn't be in our own lives. Yeah, I have low time but what's wrong with jerkin' off?

Let me put it this way - there's barely an ice cube's chance in hell that you'd be seriously considered for a position in another G-IV ANYWHERE with your present qualifications.

Already happened, decided they needed a co-captain more than strictly a first officer. Sucks, was a really good job too.

 

[TIS]

poooof

 

[corp_da20_guy]

After all, it would be NICE to know that somebody with 11k hours is on here to HELP someone like me, when I keep getting intermittent CAS messages and can't figure them out. Or need to know how to do something I didn't learn somewhere else.

What is wrong with asking the experienced captain you fly with? Why should you have to ask a question like that on the internet. Hopefully, an experienced captain should be able to answer relatively simple questions like that or should be able to look them up in a book somewhere and give you the answer. You apparently went to school as well...you should be able to look up answers like that too.

What I would worry about even more than the apparent lack of experience for such a highly automated airplane as that is...is/are the captain(s) that you fly with acting as mentors and helping you with relatively basic questions such as that (why does this light or CAS message appear). If not then I without hesitation would not put my complete faith in the CREW and place my family onboard. Not because I think you are inexperienced or because the captain is a stoodge, but because there is an apparent breakdown between the crew members.

I have learned much and still do with guys that have much more time than I have, but only because I have had some guys I have flown with that have acted as mentors and have had a strong desire to help others learn and pass on what they themselves have learned. I have learned a great deal from those and am grateful and I myself have the same desire to give back in the same capacity.

 

[semperfido]

gearmonkey--- this is embarrassing...use the delete key

 

[FN FAL]

Is that a Waffen SS death's head on your avatar?

It could be...I was looking for a generic skull image for an avatar and happend across a photo on an e-bay like auction site, did some editing of the background and put the red eyes in it. As far as I'm concerned, it's a skull with two bones crossed behind it...with two red eyes added.

 

[Gearmunky]

What is wrong with asking the experienced captain you fly with? Why should you have to ask a question like that on the internet. Hopefully, an experienced captain should be able to answer relatively simple questions like that or should be able to look them up in a book somewhere and give you the answer. You apparently went to school as well...you should be able to look up answers like that too.

What I would worry about even more than the apparent lack of experience for such a highly automated airplane as that is...is/are the captain(s) that you fly with acting as mentors and helping you with relatively basic questions such as that (why does this light or CAS message appear). If not then I without hesitation would not put my complete faith in the CREW and place my family onboard. Not because I think you are inexperienced or because the captain is a stoodge, but because there is an apparent breakdown between the crew members.

Nothing is wrong with in my crew coordination. I know what the CAS messages mean, that's not the problem, it's a recurring bug in the system from a maintenance standpoint, not a flying standpoint. I know what the messages are and what they mean, if I didn't I shouldn't be there.

I have learned much and still do with guys that have much more time than I have, but only because I have had some guys I have flown with that have acted as mentors and have had a strong desire to help others learn and pass on what they themselves have learned. I have learned a great deal from those and am grateful and I myself have the same desire to give back in the same capacity.

Good, that's the way it should be, as will I when I have some things to bring back.

 

[Gearmunky]

gearmonkey--- this is embarrassing...use the delete key

I'm used to it

 

[Gearmunky]

In fact, what I did was criticize the concept of an operator putting a novice where a seasoned professional should be - if for no other reason than to protect the owner's $17 - $30 milllion investment - and you came back like I'd taken a shot directly at you.

I guess I'll hang it up now. No one here cares what I think if they're on the other side of my opinion anyway.

TIS

Look, I already apologized to you for the statements made earlier. That's all I can do. However, your are attacking me in the way you presented it by saying all this "scheme" crap. Your saying I'm not qualified to do what I do, I can't change that you haven't flown with me. Yeah, I'm defensive, wouldn't you be? Everytime I get off my airplane and go in the FBO to take a piss, I get dirty looks, everytime I post on this stupid website I get trashed, i'm not crying I'm a big boy - it just gets old. I just wish somebody would come up with some new material.

 

[TIS]

Alright, ALRIGHT! Calm down.

May I make a simple suggestion? Perhaps I hadn't seen the PM?

I made an editorial comment that wasn't directed at you but rather at the situation. You took it personally and you shouldn't have. I understand that you don't like being kicked around but when you get ahead early in this business there are a lot of folks around who'll find all kinds of things to say to take away from your good fortune. That's not what I was doing so just relax.

At least you know how just about EVERY woman in aviation feels at some point during the ladder climb.

I'll go clean a few things up now and get out of your hair.

TIS

 

[BLing]

Thanks, everyone who replied... I guess those lights shining at the wings are to inspect for ice... But are the passengers supposed to report what they see to the pilots because it is virtually impossible for them to see the whole wing..

Okay, based on your profile I assume you work for NWAirlink either Pinncacle or Mesaba. I'm pretty sure you had to go through the same deice training as the rest of us did at either company. I must have missed the part about the ice detector lights on the wings that were meant for the passengers to relay the icing situation to the crew.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Ehhh....how did you get that out of his profile? Looks like he's just a student pilot to me. Perhaps he works for Airlink but I don't think he flies for them.

 

[svcta]

I know a guy that Gulfstream typed in a G-II as a way to keep him around to help them certify the G-V because they needed qualified help running tests. At the time he had about 300 hours, and a multi rating that had wet ink on it(like 15 hours), and was about 21 years old. He passed the checkride. Then he got a job flying in one. It happens! And you know what? He's always been one of the most professional aviators I've known and remains so to this day. Someone said it and they were right: SOUR GRAPES. I've only watched you kick this other guy around on this particular thread and I'M already sick of it.

And to top it all off, in spite of your stupid crap, he's kept his cool and generated some pretty legit. replies. Everybody go check.....your weiners are shrinking!

 

[semperfido]

I know a guy that Gulfstream typed in a G-II as a way to keep him around to help them certify the G-V because they needed qualified help running tests.

uh--sorry but this comment needs further clarification. as stated, it makes no sense. they seem to have many qualified pilots in gulfstream flight test dept. perhaps i misunderstood you.

 

[TIS]

Someone said it and they were right: SOUR GRAPES. I've only watched you kick this other guy around on this particular thread and I'M already sick of it.

And to top it all off, in spite of your stupid crap, he's kept his cool and generated some pretty legit. replies. Everybody go check.....your weiners are shrinking!

You're talking to me I take it?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I know a guy that Gulfstream typed in a G-II as a way to keep him around to help them certify the G-V because they needed qualified help running tests. At the time he had about 300 hours, and a multi rating that had wet ink on it(like 15 hours), and was about 21 years old. He passed the checkride. Then he got a job flying in one. It happens! And you know what? He's always been one of the most professional aviators I've known and remains so to this day. Someone said it and they were right: SOUR GRAPES. I've only watched you kick this other guy around on this particular thread and I'M already sick of it.

And to top it all off, in spite of your stupid crap, he's kept his cool and generated some pretty legit. replies. Everybody go check.....your weiners are shrinking!

Look at it this way...a Gulfstream is the corporate flying equivalent of a 767 or 777 in the airline world. It is an airplane that should have two experienced pilots up front...both of which should be paid as such. There is little justification as to why an operation must hire a 900 hour FO to sit up front in a G-IV, just as there would be little justification for an airline having a 900 hour FO in a 777. From what I can see that is the only point that TIS was making, and I agree with it completely. Would anyone blame Gearmonkey for taking the position that he did? Of course not...he saw an opportunity and he took it...its not his fault. The operation that he works for is where the blame should be placed.

 

[svcta]

Semper--
The statement makes sense, open your mind. I never said he was a pilot for Gulfstream. He worked in a department that handled flight control info, for lack of a better way to put it. Usually he would ride in the back of a prototype G-V and watch a computer collect data. They sent him to school as a perk for sticking around.

Skyboy1981-

In any event....What blame!? I never remember anybody saying anything about how much this guy gets paid. Do you know? I don't. And save the school on what a G-IV is equivalent to. Besides, your wrong. A 777 only weighs about 600,000 more pounds than a G-IV, that's one very small difference.

In 1952 an Aero Commander was the G-IV of its day.....what of it?

I'm not saying anybody here is accurate or not about what this guy is making money-wise, but when low-time guys killing pay rates becomes the problem for you that it is for the airline industry.....well, maybe then you can needlessly flame somebody..........sorry I'm watching Braddock kill some bad guys.........for having a job that you wish you had.