Lights on Airliners for ice?

[Gearmunky]

gearmonkey--- this is embarrassing...use the delete key

I'm used to it

 

[Gearmunky]

In fact, what I did was criticize the concept of an operator putting a novice where a seasoned professional should be - if for no other reason than to protect the owner's $17 - $30 milllion investment - and you came back like I'd taken a shot directly at you.

I guess I'll hang it up now. No one here cares what I think if they're on the other side of my opinion anyway.

TIS

Look, I already apologized to you for the statements made earlier. That's all I can do. However, your are attacking me in the way you presented it by saying all this "scheme" crap. Your saying I'm not qualified to do what I do, I can't change that you haven't flown with me. Yeah, I'm defensive, wouldn't you be? Everytime I get off my airplane and go in the FBO to take a piss, I get dirty looks, everytime I post on this stupid website I get trashed, i'm not crying I'm a big boy - it just gets old. I just wish somebody would come up with some new material.

 

[TIS]

Alright, ALRIGHT! Calm down.

May I make a simple suggestion? Perhaps I hadn't seen the PM?

I made an editorial comment that wasn't directed at you but rather at the situation. You took it personally and you shouldn't have. I understand that you don't like being kicked around but when you get ahead early in this business there are a lot of folks around who'll find all kinds of things to say to take away from your good fortune. That's not what I was doing so just relax.

At least you know how just about EVERY woman in aviation feels at some point during the ladder climb.

I'll go clean a few things up now and get out of your hair.

TIS

 

[BLing]

Thanks, everyone who replied... I guess those lights shining at the wings are to inspect for ice... But are the passengers supposed to report what they see to the pilots because it is virtually impossible for them to see the whole wing..

Okay, based on your profile I assume you work for NWAirlink either Pinncacle or Mesaba. I'm pretty sure you had to go through the same deice training as the rest of us did at either company. I must have missed the part about the ice detector lights on the wings that were meant for the passengers to relay the icing situation to the crew.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Ehhh....how did you get that out of his profile? Looks like he's just a student pilot to me. Perhaps he works for Airlink but I don't think he flies for them.

 

[svcta]

I know a guy that Gulfstream typed in a G-II as a way to keep him around to help them certify the G-V because they needed qualified help running tests. At the time he had about 300 hours, and a multi rating that had wet ink on it(like 15 hours), and was about 21 years old. He passed the checkride. Then he got a job flying in one. It happens! And you know what? He's always been one of the most professional aviators I've known and remains so to this day. Someone said it and they were right: SOUR GRAPES. I've only watched you kick this other guy around on this particular thread and I'M already sick of it.

And to top it all off, in spite of your stupid crap, he's kept his cool and generated some pretty legit. replies. Everybody go check.....your weiners are shrinking!

 

[semperfido]

I know a guy that Gulfstream typed in a G-II as a way to keep him around to help them certify the G-V because they needed qualified help running tests.

uh--sorry but this comment needs further clarification. as stated, it makes no sense. they seem to have many qualified pilots in gulfstream flight test dept. perhaps i misunderstood you.

 

[TIS]

Someone said it and they were right: SOUR GRAPES. I've only watched you kick this other guy around on this particular thread and I'M already sick of it.

And to top it all off, in spite of your stupid crap, he's kept his cool and generated some pretty legit. replies. Everybody go check.....your weiners are shrinking!

You're talking to me I take it?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I know a guy that Gulfstream typed in a G-II as a way to keep him around to help them certify the G-V because they needed qualified help running tests. At the time he had about 300 hours, and a multi rating that had wet ink on it(like 15 hours), and was about 21 years old. He passed the checkride. Then he got a job flying in one. It happens! And you know what? He's always been one of the most professional aviators I've known and remains so to this day. Someone said it and they were right: SOUR GRAPES. I've only watched you kick this other guy around on this particular thread and I'M already sick of it.

And to top it all off, in spite of your stupid crap, he's kept his cool and generated some pretty legit. replies. Everybody go check.....your weiners are shrinking!

Look at it this way...a Gulfstream is the corporate flying equivalent of a 767 or 777 in the airline world. It is an airplane that should have two experienced pilots up front...both of which should be paid as such. There is little justification as to why an operation must hire a 900 hour FO to sit up front in a G-IV, just as there would be little justification for an airline having a 900 hour FO in a 777. From what I can see that is the only point that TIS was making, and I agree with it completely. Would anyone blame Gearmonkey for taking the position that he did? Of course not...he saw an opportunity and he took it...its not his fault. The operation that he works for is where the blame should be placed.

 

[svcta]

Semper--
The statement makes sense, open your mind. I never said he was a pilot for Gulfstream. He worked in a department that handled flight control info, for lack of a better way to put it. Usually he would ride in the back of a prototype G-V and watch a computer collect data. They sent him to school as a perk for sticking around.

Skyboy1981-

In any event....What blame!? I never remember anybody saying anything about how much this guy gets paid. Do you know? I don't. And save the school on what a G-IV is equivalent to. Besides, your wrong. A 777 only weighs about 600,000 more pounds than a G-IV, that's one very small difference.

In 1952 an Aero Commander was the G-IV of its day.....what of it?

I'm not saying anybody here is accurate or not about what this guy is making money-wise, but when low-time guys killing pay rates becomes the problem for you that it is for the airline industry.....well, maybe then you can needlessly flame somebody..........sorry I'm watching Braddock kill some bad guys.........for having a job that you wish you had.

 

[TIS]

Do you know? I don't. And save the school on what a G-IV is equivalent to. Besides, your wrong. A 777 only weighs about 600,000 more pounds than a G-IV, that's one very small difference.

Yeah, that's a pretty big difference alright. But I have a small bulletin for you: From the front seats you can't tell how much airplane is behind you, only what's in front of you.

And believe me when I say that a G-IV is right on a par with the most modern airliners, it's no joke or exaggeration. Stick the HUD and EVS and maybe the planeview cockpit of the G450/550 in there and you're beyond nearly EVERY airliner out there. And if it's complexity you require just ask one of these airline retirees who hops into a G-V right after the early-out how school was for them. I haven't met one yet who wasn't more than impressed with what it took to squirm through initial, much less by what the airplane can do.

TIS

 

[SkyBoy1981]

In any event....What blame!? I never remember anybody saying anything about how much this guy gets paid. Do you know? I don't. And save the school on what a G-IV is equivalent to. Besides, your wrong. A 777 only weighs about 600,000 more pounds than a G-IV, that's one very small difference.

You completely missed the point. The weight of the airplane is irrelevent. There are very few 600,000+ pound corporate airplanes, but the Gulfstream is to corporate pilots what a 777 is to airline pilots. It is a long range, state of the art airplane that flies all over the world. If this Gulfstream operator isn't hiring a 900 hour pilot to save them money, then tell me why else they would do it? It certainly isn't because of a lack of qualified pilots looking for work.

 

[svcta]

Please do not compare flying a gulfstream(or any coprporate a/c) to flying 300+ pax to the corners of the globe.......there are many more issues to consider here....that's my point. And corporate pilots can, at any time, be hired upon the owner's prefference. It's true, you know it. $$$$$$$$.

 

[svcta]

nevermind.....

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Please do not compare flying a gulfstream(or any coprporate a/c) to flying 300+ pax to the corners of the globe.......there are many more issues to consider here....that's my point. And corporate pilots can, at any time, be hired upon the owner's prefference. It's true, you know it. $$$$$$$$.

yeah, you Gulfstream and corporate types better just stick to that easy flying and leave the "globe hoppin" to those talented 300+ passenger airline types..

what a farkin idiot.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Please do not compare flying a gulfstream(or any coprporate a/c) to flying 300+ pax to the corners of the globe.......there are many more issues to consider here....that's my point. And corporate pilots can, at any time, be hired upon the owner's prefference. It's true, you know it. $$$$$$$$.

This statement is so ignorant that its not worth typing out a long reply.

 

[TIS]

Please do not compare flying a gulfstream(or any coprporate a/c) to flying 300+ pax to the corners of the globe.......there are many more issues to consider here....that's my point

And they are? Come on there pal, let's hear 'em!

For the record, I think you're right - they shouldn't be compared. What a corporate pilot does in support of his trip does not begin to compare - on any level - to what an airline pilot does.

- Who plans the flight? The fuel stops? Not the airline pilot.
- Who files the flight plan(s)? Not the airline pilot.
- Who checks the life rafts and vests for currency? Not the airline pilot.
- Who determines how much fuel the flight takes? Not the airline pilot.
- Who sets up customs and APIS? Not the airline pilot.
- Who makes sure the passengers are taken care of on all stops? Not the airline pilot.
- Who arranges crew lodging? Not the airline pilot.
- Who coordinates maintenance when the aircraft has a problem on the trip? Not the airline pilot.
- Who actually flies the trip? Not … oh wait, THIS the airline pilot DOES do – unless the autoland needs a turn.

Having been an airline pilot I have a great deal of respect for what they do, so don’t run off at the mouth talking about airline pilot bashing or about how I just don’t understand. I do.

Saying that an airline pilot’s job is vastly different from that of the corporate pilot is a 100% true statement. Saying that the corporate pilot is somehow inferior BECAUSE of those differences is a complete distortion of how things are.

It’s just a different job, with different requirements, and I dare say FAR fewer people in the world who could do it for a career from personal and professional standpoints.

Oh, and just to bring this back to the original point, the G-IV does indeed have ice lights and we use ‘em just like the big boys do!

TIS

 

[svcta]

Okay okay okay, I never intended to spell out who is more talented.......and I don't think that I ever did. The answer is neither.

You guys began running off about that, and I never said that flying the a/c was any more of a trick. The thing was that dealing with those numbers of people is something that, believe it or not, is a dynamic that the corporate guys do not have to handle.

People getting dead, cologne that smells like the airplane is on fire, flight attendants that think you should divert because there's no hot water, etc. All somwhere over the north atlantic or siberia at night.

 

[svcta]

I'm off and up out.

 

[TurboS7]

I am an airline charter pilot, I can do all of the above, even put TP in the lavs. But......If I had to do it all--God forbid APIS(if you can believe it when it first came out management was considering having the pilots do it, I happened to be at the meeting and said no way jose.)My 16 hour duty day would consist of all of the above and when it came time to fly....I could start the engines and maybe get to the end of the runway.

 

[TurboS7]

Time out, you guys have it all wrong. The only reason that there are "highly qualified guys" flying the 777 is due to one fact called senority. 777 operators are the airlines and all the openings happen to go to senior guys-end of story. Anybody can fly the airplane, it is just another airplane, the systems are simple. The lifestyle, life situations, and emergencies are what makes the diffrence. Getting along with people, I have 50 pursers on our airline, I might as well be married to 50 diffrent women, everyone puts stuff in a diffrent place in the galley. I think they do it so you have to come and "ask them for it". The galley is their domain, the flight deck mine. Like home, the kitchen belongs to the women, and the comfi seat in from of the big screen TV belongs to the "Big Kahahuna". Anyway, enjoy being young and the trip up the ladder because as soon as you get there you wil begin the trip down the ladder. The one done is no fun.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I think some of you looked into my posts way too deeply. I was using the widebody airliners as a comparison that more people could relate to, since less people on this board are or have been involved in corporate aviation. Everyone seems to think that just because RJ pilots are hired with 900 hours and work for nothing, and since its as large as a Gulfstream, that the same situation should be okay in a G-IV. They ARE two different worlds, with two different payscales, and the Gulfstreams should be at the top end of the corporate flying side. Having flown corporate, I know that any company that can afford to buy an airplane like a G-IV can afford to pay two experienced pilots to sit up front. If they are hiring a 900 hour pilot, it is because they are either too cheap to pay someone with experience, or the head of the operation has an ego problem and doesn't like flying with another experienced pilot in the cockpit. I've seen outfits like this before. Again, I'm not blaming Gearmonkey....he has been offered a chance to build valuable experience and he chose to take it, so good for him. I'm done now.