LEX Comair Crew on a nap/cdo/

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

CNN just said the crew was on a nap. They arrived in LEX at 12:06 AM last night, from ATL, for a 06:00 AM departure this morning. That would have given them four hours of sleep, tops.
If this is correct information, I hope it puts lots of presure on the FAA to come down on the airlines for such disregard for safety.

CDOs are legal. I did them for two years at ACA. You're considered on break and it's the same as flying the backside of the clock. They can be brutal if one doesn't prepare for them. I always used to take a nap during the day.

 

[acaTerry]

Which is just ANOTHER reason to have ANY jumpseater sitting up front whenever possible. They are another set of eyes, and even if they are not familiar with the aircraft, they can still see traffic, hear the radio, and see the overall enviroment.

No they're not. They're a menace to aviation. Free rides. I know this b/c I heard a passenger say this, and the TSA thinks so too. (I'm being sarcastic)

 

[B190Captain]

My thoughts and prayers to everyone affected by this tragedy. May James pull through and may he get all the support he needs.

I am prayin for you buddy!!

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

CDO's are fine if you like that sort of thing. To me they are too similar to my Night Freight days. Duty time is usually less, and the thought process is you sleep during the day. Good for those who live in Domicile. Go to work at around 8 or 9pm and home by 7 or 8 am. Many bid them because of the commutability and then veg in the crew room all day. Many CDO lines actually can have up to 8 hours in the hotel. There only unsafe if the crew can't adjust to the back side of the clock.

I don't know why I said all that. Most of you know already but I sensed a little confusion.

I worked for comair in ATW when the EMB went down in Detroit. Everyone knew Capt Carlson the Writer. That was a tough time as this is sure to be.

Thoughts and Prayers with everyone involved.

 

[ThankyouCMR]

look at the lex taxiway diagram

Hey all, look at the difference in your Jepps and the taxiway diagram found on airnav.com (the most recent since construction). Bring this to the attention of whoever you need to. You will see that Alpha taxiway to the end of 22 is the norm, and on the new diagram Alpha will only take you to the end of 26 instead. This is scary, dangerous stuff. Fly safely.
​

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Simply put the mistake was probably made when they were told to taxi to 22 and the crew held short of 26. When given the go-ahead they turned onto 26 and TO without verifing the runway. I would bet the lights for 26 were on at the time leading to the confusion. Seems like an easy mistake , especially if you were sure the lights on that runway were out.

 

[VABB]

Simply put the mistake was probably made when they were told to taxi to 22 and the crew held short of 26. When given the go-ahead they turned onto 26 and TO without verifing the runway. I would bet the lights for 26 were on at the time leading to the confusion. Seems like an easy mistake , especially if you were sure the lights on that runway were out.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe runway 26 was unlit at the time.

 

[John Pennekamp]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe runway 26 was unlit at the time.

This keeps coming up! It was SUPPOSED to be unlit, but the talking heads at the scene kept dodging the question as to whether they were ACTUALLY off, didn't they?

 

[AVI8V1]

26 was supposed to be notamed unlit but it was lit up and rwy 22 had many lights inoperative. To add, the taxi charts were not concomitant with the environment of the airport post runway resurfacing/ at the time of departure for comair.

 

[John Pennekamp]

26 was supposed to be notamed unlit but it was lit up and rwy 22 had many lights inoperative. To add, the taxi charts were not concomitant with the environment of the airport post runway resurfacing/ at the time of departure for comair.

So in other words, all of you holier-than-thou types who want to point fingers at the crew better just simma downa until the final report comes out. The crew was but one link in the accident chain.

 

[scooter mack]

Not on a CD; Rest not an issue

I have never posted on this board, but I am interested in sharing some info with all of you. I am intimately familiar with Comair's trip building and have some experience with CD's and why we build them.

First of all, my heart goes out to every family member who is impacted by this tragedy. I feel sick inside every time I think about it. There is a reason why they call this an accident, and I do not envy your position that requires perfection. I am not a pilot and I thank you for all the safe flights you have provided over the years. I also envy a lot of you because I believe a lot of you truly love to fly and that must be awesome to have a career that gives you a daily thrill. I wish mine did.

In terms of rest, this crew was well-rested. The original trip that was in the bid packet had a 30-hour sit in LEX. I know these long sits suck, but the recent DL schedules that we have recieved force us into some unproductive pairings. Anyway, the original crew awarded this trip ended up being reassigned as they got stuck out at JFK. Flights cancelled and they did something else. The FO and the FA on 5191 were part of the crew that ferried that aircraft from JFK to LEX on Friday night. They had over 25 hrs rest in LEX. The CA was deadheaded from CVG into LEX on Saturday and had over 13 hours of rest. That's how they got on that trip.

I see a lot of backlash on the CD's. I wanted to give some perspective on how we handle these flights at Comair. Our Agreement requires that at least 80% of all CD's must be built into hard lines. We can put up to 3 CD's back to back on a line. Most lines have 12-14 CD's per month. These lines are popular with our crewmembers and almost always get bid. I cannot recall an instance where a CD line was junior assigned in the CRJ50. The purpose of the line is to allow the pilot to establish their circadium (sp?) rythym. The problem is most of these crewmembers choose not to sleep during the day. Therefore, they are operating these trips on a reduced amount of sleep. If that is the case, than I agree that there is an issue.

CD's are not some great benefit to the company. They save us on hotels (because we don't have to stage a crew) but they cost us extra crews. The average CD line blocks 30-35 hours per month but credits 76 hours. So every 2 CD lines produces around 80 additional "soft hours" or one additional crew. Until recently, we built 35-40 CD lines a month which equates to almost 20 additonal crews. The real key to CD lines is that they greatly improve the rest of the pairing solution. If we were to stop building them, the overall trip productivity (which already stinks) would be drastically reduced. The pilots who like them would revolt and the pilots who don't would see their days off further reduced. It's a Catch-22.

Anyway, I want to reiterate that I have a lot of respect for the pilot profession and I truly feel sick about this accident. May you all fly safe.

 

[CatYaaak]

Lag-time in charts so not up-to date, light bulbs out, darkness, airport construction, early mornings...these are among many other detractors to safety that go with the territory in this business. There will always be those factors. Our business as professionals is to operate in such a way that mitigates them, or shut down if we can't.

Stay vigilant. Stop the Show if you must. Quit the job if you can't. Pax deserve no less.

 

[xjgearbtch]

Bottom line CD, We call em High Speeds, and for good reason, are dangerous. I've seen too many mistakes on these just to get 10 more minutes of rest. It is a catch 22, but this goes right into the Fatigue issue that ALPA has been harping on for a while now. If you have flown them you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you haven't flown them, you really can't give much to this discussion it's a different animal.

Puff out your chest and say it wouldn't happen to me. BS this could have happened to anyone of us. Stay Vigilant.

 

[FlyBunny]

Don't rail on the media too much. They have a TV camera, you have a web board. After reading some of the posts, I am not sure who is worse.

>Best wishes to friends and families

SO VERY WELL SAID!

Bunny

 

[FlyBunny]

?

The difference here is nobody claims to be a professional journalist just because they know how to write. Some of their so called "aviation experts" barely know what an airplane is much less how it is operated

A 'Professor Emirates’ of Aerospace Engineering knows more about airplanes than your brain, as a pilot, could ever comprehend.

Bunny

 

[FlyBunny]

Huh!

I particularly liked the guy who kept referring to "Runway Two Two Zero" and "Runway Two Six Zero", and my day just wouldn't have been the same without that stupid crack Mary Skeezavo giving her useless opinion.

I really look forward to hearing Miles O'Brian's opinions most of all, though. He has several hundred hours in various types of airplanes, just like my rollaboard.

There's nothing wrong with calling it 'Runway Two Two Zero', is it?

We just use short form and 'acronyms’ because of space and frequency use limitation. This person has all the time in the world to use the full name rather than having to omit a ‘zero’. Believe me, more people in this world are non-pilots and you still think that anything said in this world about aviation should follow strict aviation ‘standards’ and ‘rules’.

Get over it!

And that lady…Mary whose last name you completely missed….is far from being a crack…look up what she was in Aviation before starting a fabulously successful practice of suing people for wrong doings, especially in aviation…and I hope she takes Comair and FAA to limits on this tragedy!

Bunny

 

[WorldOnTime]

A 'Professor Emirates’ of Aerospace Engineering knows more about airplanes than your brain, as a pilot, could ever comprehend.

Bunny

There was a jackass Riddle Prof. stating (not one hour after the crash) that it must have been engine related. It was on MSNBC's website.

 

[FlyBunny]

Which is just ANOTHER reason to have ANY jumpseater sitting up front whenever possible. They are another set of eyes, and even if they are not familiar with the aircraft, they can still see traffic, hear the radio, and see the overall enviroment. But that would make WAY too much sense.

Totally Agree!

In fact, when you're not actively following procedures and involved as pilots, you have the liberty to look and feel, even subconsciously, things that might be out of order.

I know, I have been there, and far from being a distraction, as a Jump Seater, I pointed out a strange ‘rubber sort of pipe’ hanging/flapping from between the flaps on a NWA 757 at MSP during Taxi. The crew called it in, and the 757 returned to the gate.

Bunny

 

[BoilerUP]

I know, I have been there, and far from being a distraction, as a Jump Seater, I pointed out a strange ‘rubber sort of pipe’ hanging/flapping from between the flaps on a NWA 757 at MSP during Taxi. The crew called it in, and the 757 returned to the gate.[/COLOR]

So...where you an intern, or have you moved beyond your profile?

 

[ReverseSensing]

FlyBunny:

Stop. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. Either that, or you're drinking. In any case, stop. It's embarassing.