Let's use 400K piano pushers as an example.

[waveflyer]

I sure wish you would've had the opportunity to plead your case to an arbitrator. Funny how we get all the gains yet your side played dirty pool to keep this out of arbitration. That makes sense.

You got a seniority bump (albeit a small one) as a result of our great seniority loss. It's math, you did, you all did.

As far as what I got...can you guarantee any of that? My new seniority is guaranteed. Pan Am was stable at one time, so was Eastern, they were also the highest paying too. So was TWA. No guarantees going forward, except for my new seniority.

DRC is ongoing so it's not totally over. Not holding my breath, but it's not over.

So full of it-
You guys got Herb and Colleen to smack you down.

Do you really think that those two do SWAPA's bidding. They are world renowned for doing the right thing by their employees and you got smacked down by THEM! And still you think you are the right ones? You were playing games and delaying the process, poisoning the well as much as you could- trying to drive it to arbitration regardless of the financial consequences if all employees did that, regardless of GK's wishes- and you found out that the air tran purchase becomes a LOT less profitable with a pilot union from the purchased carrier trying to use our culture against SWA.
Get over yourself- this integration wasn't a win for SWA employees- none of us are in a better spot over this-

And look at our own performance since the purchase- morale is down- performance is down- few care as much as they did before the purchase-
And that's on the air tran purchase-
So go ahead- keep bitching-
Maybe one day you'll help make this place as average to sh/tty a place to work as air tran once was-
All because you felt entitled to show up at SWA on day one with all the rewards as if you'd been at SWA all along. Instant gratification. No work. No coming in humble and doing the job- no profits first- you wanted our contract and our seniority immediately and would work against SWA if you didn't.
I don't get it. As a businessman who's also a democrat- it's the part that conflicts me about unions. I cash my check twice a month- but some of you flat out shouldn't be here.

 

[PCL_128]

So full of it-
You guys got Herb and Colleen to smack you down.

Do you really think that those two do SWAPA's bidding. They are world renowned for doing the right thing by their employees and you got smacked down by THEM! And still you think you are the right ones? You were playing games and delaying the process, poisoning the well as much as you could- trying to drive it to arbitration regardless of the financial consequences if all employees did that, regardless of GK's wishes- and you found out that the air tran purchase becomes a LOT less profitable with a pilot union from the purchased carrier trying to use our culture against SWA.
Get over yourself- this integration wasn't a win for SWA employees- none of us are in a better spot over this-

And look at our own performance since the purchase- morale is down- performance is down- few care as much as they did before the purchase-
And that's on the air tran purchase-
So go ahead- keep bitching-
Maybe one day you'll help make this place as average to sh/tty a place to work as air tran once was-
Entitled greedy punks

Wave, the only one poisoning the well is you.

 

[waveflyer]

Please

 

[Clyde Frog]

Get over yourself- this integration wasn't a win for SWA employees- none of us are in a better spot over this-

You're all more senior and 850 of you are captains as a result. ALL of you are in a "better spot".

 

[slaquer5]

Some of you guys are absolutely living in a fantasy world. I remember a whole bunch of you, here on this very website, warning us to "be reasonable" in our seniority expectations because uncle Gary will put us on the street if we force his hand. Obviously the boss was talking to SWAPA and the plan was laid out early on. To say otherwise defies logic and sound reasoning.

Or maybe the CEO. Did not want to have another USair/AW on his hands .





It's his airline, and he does not run it like other airline CEOs run there airline .


Both sides feel they got a raw deal . Why is so hard for you to see that there are some very upset SWA pilots ?

 

[Clyde Frog]

How many time can you people make the same, tired, non-sense arguments?

Or maybe the CEO. Did not want to have another USair/AW on his hands .

It was impossible to have another USAir/AW. They had a totally different set of circumstances requiring a JCBA. Not even remotely similar. This argument, like many others proposed by SWAPA, just doesn't hold water.

Both sides feel they got a raw deal . Why is so hard for you to see that there are some very upset SWA pilots ?

Because they have nothing to be upset about. They all gained seniority at our expense, got a new domicile out of the deal and "captured" all 850 AirTran captain seats. They'll all likely see a higher profit sharing check as well. Only a top to bottom staple would have appeased them. Please excuse my lack of sympathy...Boo friggin' hoo for the poor junior SW FO's. AirTran FO's had career expectations as well you know.

 

[freightdogfred]

My point was not that it wasn't a good business decision, but rather that it wasn't a good pilot decision. I recognize the difference. Clearly you must as well, as much bitching about it that everyone (including you) does. You're just trying to be contrary to anything someone from Southwest says.

And as far as what the company paid for yours, you're comparing apples to oranges. Issuing stock costs money. Acquiring a company with money in the bank, but lots of liabilities does NOT count as "netting that amount of money." It cost substantially more than "$250 million" to acquire AirTran.

Southwest pilots are not questioning GK's business decision in this case, but rather than we'd rather he spent all that money (and the subsequently-acquired obligations) to grow organically. That way there wouldn't have been all the pain for the employee groups, including yours. Clear now, or do you want to nitpick something else?

Bubba

A good business decision will always be a good pilot decision, in the long run. That part of it even you should be able to understand. If you don't understand the obvious advantadges of issuing stock vs laying cold hard cash I can't help you. I'm sorry that SWAPA didn't deliver on the expectation to staple all of our group, it must be very painful for the first year FO's. You, and the rest of the SWAPA posters here who feel our group got a "good deal" is the only thing I post "contrary" opinions about. Outside of your pilot group your version of the good deal is not viewed in the same light by anyone.

 

[redflyer65]

How many time can you people make the same, tired, non-sense arguments?

Tired arguments?

Are you kidding?

What did you want Clyde? DOH/Relative Seniority AND to double your salary at a more stable company? Keep ATL fenced for you? 20 years long enough?

What did you, as a pilot group, bring to the table? I'm not talking about the company assets that Gary bought, but the pilot group.

What exactly did you think you were entitled too?

What did I get? Maybe a 2% global seniority bump that really doesn't amount to anything in my base. No extra pay for me. No stock or equity stake in this deal. I won't upgrade ONE day earlier because of this mess. So you tell me exactly what I received. I sure didn't get a 40-100% salary increase like some. Talk about feeling entitled to everything, your the poster child for that kind of thinking.

Your union screwed you from the first deal. The second deal came right from Gary. No one else. SWAPA had no power in this agreement. No inside information. Think SWAPA knew ahead of time the 717 was going away? Nope. They actually sent the Training Committee members off to ATL to get their 717 type. Think SWAPA would have done that if they would have known? Your conspiracy theory looks like Swiss Cheese Clyde. Sorry.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Tired arguments?



What did you want Clyde? DOH/Relative Seniority AND to double your salary at a more stable company? Keep ATL fenced for you? 20 years long enough?

That was a decision for an arbitrator to make. Both sides agreed to that process.

You and I will never agree on what's fair so I'm not even going to debate it with you. Your side played dirty pool and won. Congratulations, you cheated AirTran out of due process, you're #1.

 

[HowardBorden]

That was a decision for an arbitrator to make. Both sides agreed to that process.

Directly from the process agreement:

WHEREAS, Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (?SWAPA?), the Air Line Pilots Association (?ALPA?), Southwest and AirTran desire to utilize an alternative process as set forth in this Agreement for the creation of an Integrated Master Seniority List