Let's use 400K piano pushers as an example.

[Clyde Frog]

Your union screwed you from the first deal. The second deal came right from Gary. No one else. SWAPA had no power in this agreement. No inside information. Think SWAPA knew ahead of time the 717 was going away? Nope. They actually sent the Training Committee members off to ATL to get their 717 type. Think SWAPA would have done that if they would have known? Your conspiracy theory looks like Swiss Cheese Clyde. Sorry.

The first deal was rejected because it was an insulting offer. The second deal was accepted (by a bunch of weak individuals) because Gary and Co. made a bunch of scary threats...not long after SWAPA rallied around HQ in his support. Everyone who isn't a SW pilot seems to know how this thing went down.

Maybe the training dept feedback has something to do with the 717 going away? I don't know. I never said SWAPA knew about it in advance however quite a few SW FAs told me they were going to Delta months before it was announced, weird.

 

[SWA Bubba]

A good business decision will always be a good pilot decision, in the long run. That part of it even you should be able to understand. If you don't understand the obvious advantadges of issuing stock vs laying cold hard cash I can't help you. I'm sorry that SWAPA didn't deliver on the expectation to staple all of our group, it must be very painful for the first year FO's. You, and the rest of the SWAPA posters here who feel our group got a "good deal" is the only thing I post "contrary" opinions about. Outside of your pilot group your version of the good deal is not viewed in the same light by anyone.

Dear Knucklehead.... I mean "Reading comprehension-challenged individual,"

I have already agreed that buying AirTran was a business decision, and ultimately most probably a good one. Okay? Get it? I.....AGREED.....WITH......YOU. In fact, we are still in agreement about this. You can stop arguing with me (and yourself) about that.

By the way, I never said that issuing stock was the same as "laying cold hard cash," now did I? Can you show where I said that? What I did was to refute your stated notion, that using stock to partially buy a company somehow cost nothing. That was all. You can probably stop arguing about that as well.

Now...to your first statement: "A good business decision will always be a good pilot decision, in the long run." Here, I'm gonna' call BS. And I only need one word to make my case, and that word is "outsourcing." Any questions on that?

Good God, your former company even engaged in this (via codeshare, to save money), and yet you still can't help yourself being contrary to anything a Southwest guys says. Why don't you ask all the ALPA carriers who outsource up to 50% of their ASMs (saving the company tons of money by using cheaper labor--clearly a "good" business decision) if THEY think that that's "good" for the pilots, now or in the long run.

My point in our case was that this is causing pain for the pilots, both at Southwest and at AirTran. That's all I meant. And personal pain and trouble usually outweighs (in individuals' minds) the future good of the whole. Southwest pilots would rather have spent whatever amount of money on organic growth instead of this, and clearly all the FAT posters on here would have preferred never to have been acquired in the first place. See? We're in perfect agreement. No need to argue.

On the other hand, if you want to stick with your "must be good for the pilots" mantra, then please tell us how happy you are right now. Because with your logic, clearly GK's decision to buy AirTran must be good for you, since you're a pilot. Hell, you must be freakin' ecstatic! I mean, sure there's pain and heartache for you now, but keep your chin up and enjoy--in the long run, it'll be good for everyone! Including you!

On the third hand, keep arguing with me, even when I'm agreeing with you--because I'm an OSW guy. Whatever.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

What exactly did you think you were entitled too?

Our seniority, a$$hole.

 

[madjack]

"AirTran FO's had career expectations as well you know."

"Our seniority, a$$hole."

All that changed when your company was sold...sorry, but life is not fair...

 

[redflyer65]

Our seniority, a$$hole.

Not quite PCL. It's more the seniority you LOST, instead of my gain. That's the reality of the deal for most on both sides.

Too bad you guys couldn't have given me a 50% raise....a$$hole.

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

"AirTran FO's had career expectations as well you know."

"Our seniority, a$$hole."

All that changed when your company was sold...sorry, but life is not fair...

You better hope SWA doesn't get sold someday and while you are at it, tell me how that could never happen.

 

[redflyer65]

You better hope SWA doesn't get sold someday and while you are at it, tell me how that could never happen.

To be honest, I think PCL hoped AirTran would never be sold by his previous statements. If I worked there, I would have felt the same.

Just like the pilots of SW wanting organic growth instead of buying anyone.

So I agree Jonny.

 

[Clyde Frog]

"AirTran FO's had career expectations as well you know."

"Our seniority, a$$hole."

All that changed when your company was sold...sorry, but life is not fair...

It's these dumbass comments that are why you guys have an unenviable reputation among pretty much everyone. The arrogance is nauseating.

If AirTran was having financial issues or was bankrupt, you may have a point. However, given the facts, your opinion is asinine.

 

[Clyde Frog]

MJ, I also like how you quote my career expectations comment and ignore the rest of my post. I guess it's hard to argue with sound reasoning and facts.

 

[sfomarc]

Where do you come up with this drivel? SWA paid 1.4 billion for Airtran. 750 mil in cash, the rest in SWA stock. Airtran had 500 mil in the bank so net outlay was around 250 mil. GK told you why-gates, routes,planes, LGA and DCA slots, and all the ATL gates. Far cheaper to acquire than "grow organically" and he says SWA will reap 400 million in synergies this year.
You're a stockholder, go to the shareholders meeting a table a proposal to replace him for his incompetence.

GK also said there were no plans to close any Airtran cities and that the 717 was a great fit for SWA. I told a chief pilot that 717's will never see SWA paint. I stopped believing GK about 5 years ago.