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Lets be honest here, and start using some facts

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StaySeated

IBT does not represent ME
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
782
There is a deal to be had here between FAPA and SWAPA. There is so much more to this story than "swapa wanted a staple and FAPA wanted seat protection".

Lets be honest. If my fellow F9 pilots utilize the following goals and apply them to both qualified bidders, the answer is obvious.

FAPA’s concerns are:

* Job Protection
* Seat Protection
* Pay Protection
* Domicile Protection

1. Job Protection - we know that at least 20% of us will be furloughed at SWA. We do not know what the plan will be at RAH

2. Seat Protection - we know that seat protection is currently not on the table at SWA. We do not know what the plan will be at RAH considering the fact that we will have to complete an SLI with the IBT.

3. Pay protection - this one is obvious, nothing to see hear, moving on to...

4. Domicile protection - this one is not so obvious. There may be some form of fence for Denver with SWA. What hasn't been discussed is the deployment of airbuses to a different city if RAH wins. If Rah wants to spread out to a different domicile and they are the only other bidder than domicile protection shouldn't even be included in the top four, IMHO.

Basically, we are faced with two completely different scenarios.

SWA includes furloughs, a pay raise, and a career with a "known entity".

RAH may or may not include furloughs, no pay raises, and a career with nothing but "unknowns".

SWA is the better option. There isn't even a comparison, and I am floored at some of the things I am hearing and reading from my colleagues.

While we are being honest, it is time for the SWA guys to admit a few items.

This acquisition will help you, all of you, and you know it.

A pure staple is a "seat-grab" of the highest order.

An F9 Captain moves to the right seat, is on RSV instead of holding a line, may lose his domicile, could potentially be furloughed while at the bottom of the list, but keeps his pay? This is a windfall? Come on guys, you lose nothing by agreeing to a ratio integration. By putting the entire F9 list at the bottom you immediately upgrade over 200 FO's to Captain and receive a furlough buffer at the junior end of the list. Who is getting a windfall here?

There is a deal to be had here, and a fair one at that.

Hopefully the court will allow an extension and we will all agree on a fair plan. If this blows up, both groups will lose. We have the ability to make an improvement on what currently is the most successful airline in history. I am confident that both sides will see the potential here.
 
You say that SWA WILL FURLOUGH but then you say we won't lose anything with an integration?

I don't follow.

Do you have it in writing that SWA will furlough 20% of F9 pilots?

Gup
 
At least 20% WILL be furloughed, as SWA is only taking 40 out of 51 airframes.

There is a way to integrate AND offer furlough protection. You furlough out of seniority order (ie only F9 pilots get furloughed).
 
Stay seated,

I am sorry you guys are in this situation. As a professional pilot I think it sucks that management put you in this spot.

As to what you have said though I do think what we are offering is fair. The choice is not as you present it. The choice is to take what RAH, or SWA is offering, not relative seniority as SWA or RAH. I think that for the majority of your pilots SWA is a better choice. Yes there are some drawbacks, but again those are the choices you guys have. There is no ratio integrations choice, we are not offering that. Is it a good deal for a current SWA pilot to have you guys stapled, maybe. I don't see it as a windfall for me though.

I won't really gain much if it is done that way. You think that is not true but I can tell you that my schedule won't really change, or my pay. My upgrade is not going to change much, if at all. I have a great job that I am happy with, and am more afraid all this deal will screw up my company than I am excited about a few % points seniority bump. That is how I see it.
 
At least 20% WILL be furloughed, as SWA is only taking 40 out of 51 airframes.

There is a way to integrate AND offer furlough protection. You furlough out of seniority order (ie only F9 pilots get furloughed).

Very interesting theory. If that could be done and it would go all the way through the number one F( then somebody should make that recommendation. However, I would assume FAPA knows that. But then again, we all know what happens when we ASSUME.
 
So you guys get relative seniority at OUR payrates with OUR job security and OUR bases and for this you sacrifice yourselves in the event of a furlough.

What does SWA get that we don't/can't already have/get?

Gup
 
So you guys get relative seniority at OUR payrates with OUR job security and OUR bases and for this you sacrifice yourselves in the event of a furlough.

What does SWA get that we don't/can't already have/get?

Gup

That is not at all what I am saying. I probably wasn't clear.

I believe that there is a possible deal here, a deal where everyone wins and the SWA guys "win" more than the F9 guys.

Hopefully the guys at the table, if they are allowed back to the table, can make it happen.
 

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