Let the rumours FLY ....

[RP170]

I suggest you re-read your own post. This whole thread is speculation and BS.

Then don't worry about it, or better yet, don't read any of it.

 

[jehtplane]

Then don't worry about it, or better yet, don't read any of it.

You are absolutely right, I should not waste my time reading anything from someone who knows less about what is actually happening than my dog.

 

[gutshotdraw]

NJAOwner,

I always value your opinion and you make some interesting points but I also don't see Marquis as a "competitor." My money, if a deal happens at all, is on Options.

 

[notapilot]

Bombardier bought Skyjet a few years ago. Could possibly be a Netjets-Marquis thing if anything. There is no way Bombardier will sell owners without aircraft and hold on to deflated valued assets for who knows how long. This is not even close to Bombardiers 'M.O.'.

 

[flagshipper]

Maybe NJ brings Marquis in house. No change to the Marquis customers, no new aircraft, NJ already handles owners services and everything but marketing (and NJ salesmen already represent Marquis as well) and NJ can handle the card business.
QUOTE]


ding ding we have a winner

 

[Trash8Mofo]

And puts other guys on the street? Is that what you wish for?

Actually, to be brutally honest, yes.

With the economy the way it is and with the fractional market having steady but minimal recovery, the name of the game is Market Share (aka existing customer base). Either customers are being flown by your company and your pilots or by my company and our pilots; its your job or mine.

I wish the circumstances were different, but it is what it is. At least Netjets pilots are not undercutting anybody or having sub-par wages to subsidize it's competitiveness.

I wish it was higher tides lift all boats, but it is just not the case with the way the recovery is going.

 

[BeeDubya]

Which begs the question...who is keeping tabs on the # of a/c at NJA???

For instance we furloughed 500..(which is the 5 per a/c of the 100 we want to dispose of) but did we actually dispose of any? Are they on the certificate? How many a/c are there?

I don't care if an a/c is sitting in Carson City for weeks..It's still a NJA a/c.
Now say we get a crap load of owners from another frac. And say they get into some of these 100 a/c. How do we know the status of any of the a/c...I'm more inclined to think that they'll just try to overwork the rest of the guys..

Can any union guys explain how it will/can be done. (without relying on figures given from the company to us)

The Union is tracking this information and we are not relying solely on information provided by the company. I will not discuss how we are doing it on a public message board. If you are a NJ pilot, you can email or PM on the Union site.

BW

 

[CRJFlyer]

You are absolutely right, I should not waste my time reading anything from someone who knows less about what is actually happening than my dog.

I got my money on RP170 being way smarter than you...

And more able to keep his cool and not get bent out of shape on FI like yourself....

and he doesn't have to put pictures of girls he'll never get on his profile..

 

[CRJFlyer]

Maybe NJ brings Marquis in house. No change to the Marquis customers, no new aircraft, NJ already handles owners services and everything but marketing (and NJ salesmen already represent Marquis as well) and NJ can handle the card business.

Plus, my guess is Marquis has an issue with a mismatch of owning shares and having a multiyear commitment but only selling cards in 1 year (or less) pieces. Generally, it would be called a mismatch of maturities between your assets and liabilities. if this is true, NJ can buy Marquis on the cheap since Marquis would already have a huge liability to NJ.

I've often wondered how much does NJA prosper from the Marquis cards? I'm sure there is a profit, but if Marquis is also making a profit then that means NJA is not fully realizing maximum profits for their planes and service. We(NJA) does all the work and Marquis just sells what we sell to them at a premium..

Like skimming the skim!!!

Seems we could very easily do what Marquis does.. All that is required is to sell them(cards or whatever) under the pt. 135 cert.... Keep all the profits etc.. I gotta bet Sokol has looked at this and wondered the same..It's been rumored that he is the type of guy to ask..."how are we making money from this?"


If we did take over Marquis I don't see how exactly that would equate to any realized growth though... We already have the planes and pilots for the Marquis customers figured in....(well sort of since we don't know how many planes we actually have)

 

[CRJFlyer]

The Union is tracking this information and we are not relying solely on information provided by the company. I will not discuss how we are doing it on a public message board. If you are a NJ pilot, you can email or PM on the Union site.

BW

Same answer I got from the union msg board ( a non-answer)..Same with how are we keeping track of sell-offs..Crickets... when I asked that question also.... As far as being a NJ pilot I won't even get into that discussion.... My NJASAP board viewing forever ended 1/15 at 11:59 pm...

Besides, I thought it was apparent that the NJASAP board is about as public as FI.....Except when one memebr gives a furloughed member his password..Then they are on them like a hawk, but somehow we can't figure out how management gets on there to read it..

 

[holden1]

I am betting it is Marquis - seems like that's the issue Sokol needs to resolve pretty quickly.

 

[Outta Here]

Marquis is a competitor now, they became one late last fall. Marquis is not as cherry as people think, they have some major cash flow issues right now. They are leveraged to the hilt. My guess it will be them, why pay a third person to do what we should have done from the beginning, sold cards ourselves.

 

[jonjuan]

Marquis is a competitor now, they became one late last fall. Marquis is not as cherry as people think, they have some major cash flow issues right now. They are leveraged to the hilt. My guess it will be them, why pay a third person to do what we should have done from the beginning, sold cards ourselves.

Because without them, nja would not have sold nearly the cards nor had no where near the growth without marquis. They are or at least were a marketing machine and were uniquely tied in to groups that bought cards hand over fist. In fact, most people are probably more familiar with the marquis name/brand than the nja name. They also thought the exponential growth would never stop, similar to the mortgage hype/crisis. Now they are fully pregnant with way too many owned aircraft for the current demand. Only a couple of ways to become un-pregnant.

 

[NJAowner]

The Marquis model can make lots of $$ when business is good and lose lkots of $$ when business is bad. Here is the example below and I have made up the numbers.

Assume Marquis owns 40 1/8 interests in an Excel. That equals 5 planes or 400 hours per year. They cut up the shares into 80 25 hour cards that they sell at $175k each = $14,000,000 in revenue. Assume they pay NJA about $120 per 1/16 in monthly management and hourly fees (all fuel is not in this equation). There is $9.6MM in these expenses, and then you need to pay overhead and capital costs for the planes (or interest on the debt) and depreciation. This assumes 100% utilization. Now, if Marquis sales decrease 40%, they only bring in $8.4MM, pay NJ $9.6MM to operate, plus interest, etc. With business down I can see them getting into a big hole with NJ. If Marquis were to go outr of business of file bankruptcy, leaving aside the "brand" issues, NJ is probably the largest unsecured creditor. NJ would do this deal to protect itself more than to grow. NJ could probbably "buy" Marquis for what Marquis owes NJ and allowing Marquis to be released from its contracts with NJ. The big issue is probably how to handle Marquis' lenders and the planes/shares pledged as collateral for Marquis' loans.

The problem lies in that Marquis has long term commitments on the expense sside and all of its revenue is short term and fickle.

 

[NJAowner]

My $ need be corrected -- but later.

Some of the numbers are wrong in the above email (I was runnning 2 sets of calcuations and mixed them up), but the concept still holds. Sorry for any confusion.