Let the rumours FLY ....

[gunfyter]

Maybe they are buying a charter/jet card outfit? Easier paperwork there

And they could go straight to EJM

 

[clydefastly]

Just a wild guess, but what about Sentient, or a similar comany with a customer base and no aircraft?


Edit: I just looked up one, sorry

 

[Flex-ible]

Note that it says taking the customers, not the crews, assets and debt. It most likely involves buying up existing contracts, giving the customers an option they may not have right now.
.

Ouch, but good point. That really makes me think FLOPS is the likely candidate - and from what I read it's not beyond their management to yank the rug out from ALL of their employees simultaneously!

 

[jonjuan]

Just a wild guess, but what about Sentient, or a similar comany with a customer base and no aircraft?


Edit: I just looked up one, sorry

IMO, most sentient charter users certainly won't pay 25-30% more if they are "switched." I am assuming the costs and aircraft would have to be nearly the same, i.e. citationshares, otherwise, they won't stay around long.

 

[LAZYB]

I doubt it is flex. The quote implied skokal would take the customers not the airplanes. The fleets are too different, challenger owners would not be happy about switchin to another plane.

Maybe they are buying a charter/jet card outfit? Easier paperwork there

I don't think it's Flex either.

So how goes it my friend?

FLOPS doesn't have the money to buy out their owner's contracts...

and may have difficulty fulfilling their obligations.

 

[jonjuan]

gimme an EM....

 

[gret]

One has to wonder if the reporter wasn't reading more into his comments than they deserve. Everyone likes to hear good things, especially in Columbus, and I doubt that this guy would divulge anything regarding a potential transaction.

NetJets hasn't sold all their excess inventory yet and why would they want to acquire another company with even one a/c.

They were looking at smaller a/c mgmt companies before he took over and most of the survivors are barely holding on. Nobody would have the size, let alone profits, to justify a transaction that would materially impact the company. Sentient and Jet Aviation are shadows of their former selves and the other fraxs, except FLOPS, need their operations to feed product to (plus they can' afford to dispose of them because the ongoing buyback obligations) and it is doubtful that NetJets would ever commit themselves to buying a/c the way they did in the old days.

The debt on NetJets books seems extremely large. Why do they have so much debt? Way to much for just core a/c. Probably includes the amount incurred to buyback shares from owners.

 

[gutshotdraw]

One has to wonder if the reporter wasn't reading more into his comments than they deserve. Everyone likes to hear good things, especially in Columbus, and I doubt that this guy would divulge anything regarding a potential transaction.

NetJets hasn't sold all their excess inventory yet and why would they want to acquire another company with even one a/c.

They were looking at smaller a/c mgmt companies before he took over and most of the survivors are barely holding on. Nobody would have the size, let alone profits, to justify a transaction that would materially impact the company. Sentient and Jet Aviation are shadows of their former selves and the other fraxs, except FLOPS, need their operations to feed product to (plus they can' afford to dispose of them because the ongoing buyback obligations) and it is doubtful that NetJets would ever commit themselves to buying a/c the way they did in the old days.

The debt on NetJets books seems extremely large. Why do they have so much debt? Way to much for just core a/c. Probably includes the amount incurred to buyback shares from owners.

Which is why, it seems to me, reading between the lines of the Sokol quotes in the story, Netjets only wants the CUSTOMERS of whichever company might be in play. More customers spread over the existing but currently idle aircraft and voila: you have eliminated a competitor and taken another step closer to operational profitability with existing equipment and manpower by increasing monthly management fees and occupied hourly fees.

If it happens this way, there will be some convoluted exchanges of owner contracts and aircraft ownership, out clauses for owners that don't want to go to Netjets, etc. End result: a couple hundred new owners at NJA but no transfer of aircraft to NJA and, sadly, a few hundred employees left behind in the rubble. It sucks, but that's the only scenario I see with any financial advantage to Sokol.

 

[T-1GUY]

Just a guess.. Buying out options remaining customers... Options repositions itself as a charter outfit.. Does options still have owners ??

 

[CRJFlyer]

Which is why, it seems to me, reading between the lines of the Sokol quotes in the story, Netjets only wants the CUSTOMERS of whichever company might be in play. More customers spread over the existing but currently idle aircraft and voila: you have eliminated a competitor and taken another step closer to operational profitability with existing equipment and manpower by increasing monthly management fees and occupied hourly fees.

If it happens this way, there will be some convoluted exchanges of owner contracts and aircraft ownership, out clauses for owners that don't want to go to Netjets, etc. End result: a couple hundred new owners at NJA but no transfer of aircraft to NJA and, sadly, a few hundred employees left behind in the rubble. It sucks, but that's the only scenario I see with any financial advantage to Sokol.

Which begs the question...who is keeping tabs on the # of a/c at NJA???

For instance we furloughed 500..(which is the 5 per a/c of the 100 we want to dispose of) but did we actually dispose of any? Are they on the certificate? How many a/c are there?

I don't care if an a/c is sitting in Carson City for weeks..It's still a NJA a/c.
Now say we get a crap load of owners from another frac. And say they get into some of these 100 a/c. How do we know the status of any of the a/c...I'm more inclined to think that they'll just try to overwork the rest of the guys..

Can any union guys explain how it will/can be done. (without relying on figures given from the company to us)

 

[RP170]

Which begs the question...who is keeping tabs on the # of a/c at NJA???

For instance we furloughed 500..(which is the 5 per a/c of the 100 we want to dispose of) but did we actually dispose of any? Are they on the certificate? How many a/c are there?

I don't care if an a/c is sitting in Carson City for weeks..It's still a NJA a/c.
Now say we get a crap load of owners from another frac. And say they get into some of these 100 a/c. How do we know the status of any of the a/c...I'm more inclined to think that they'll just try to overwork the rest of the guys..

Can any union guys explain how it will/can be done. (without relying on figures given from the company to us)

Good questions. I have a feeling that we may have less pilots than are required per the contract after the furloughs. Might be something worth looking into and grieving if true. Just because he "wants" to sell off 100 (ie, 500 pilots) aircraft doesn't mean they have been or will be sold. Which means they should still be staffed accordingly if they are on the certificate. Seems like no one ever has an exact answer as to how many aircraft are on the certificate at a given time.

It seems like the furloughs should have gradually occured along with the selling of the aircraft instead of 500 axed all at once. I know we didn't lose 100 aircraft all at once.

 

[shroomwell]

If it is a deal for only the customers, then where do the old aircraft go? I don't think any company is going to sell just the customers. It is too complex with ownership and management contracts of the airplanes.

 

[flex*wife]

There was an AIN article that referenced a merger that was pointed out to me be a Flex management pilot. He was adamant that I read the paragraph regarding the merger with little other comment. Just a thought. Could be nothing.

and management, especially flexjet management, would never try to purposefully screw with their poor belaugered pilot group already stressed out about furloughs with rumors of more to come... No not the waterview I've heard about.

Not to mention that waterview never "accidentally" or "confidentially" leak information for any other purpose than true and outright disclosure or the best interests of said pilot group. No, they are an honorable bunch those guys at Waterview. They would never put themselves or company skeltons ahead of the right thing...

All I can say is if some - make that any- of you are truly worried that this rumor could even be about Flex and it turns out not to be true,the best thing
y'all can do is quickly unionize flash gordon style before the industry and economy throw any more curveballs. This is not about money or QOL issues anymore. It is about the right to have a say in your future and a seat at the table that decides your fate.

And if it turns out to actually be flex, well we're all screwed and it's too late for anything. Don't worry cuz I won't have the time to say I told you so because I will be too busy freaking out and probrably crying hysterically at the
thought of how it would be a catastrophe for my family. No other rumor has had me identify with the furloughees as much as this one. That's a LOT - or should I say a LOT MORE- of good people screwed.

I really hope your experience DirtyBeech was just more waterview olympics.

Geeeessshhhh....

 

[Ref]

Here is a question. If Netjets is looking to just buy an owner list, Why would Bombardier (who is in the business of selling airplanes) sell the FlexJet owner list and be stuck with the 85 or so airplanes Flexjet has left. That really doesnt make a lot of sense. Now if Netjest was looking to buy the whole business I think it might be a better possibility.

 

[EatSleepFly]

Here is a question. If Netjets is looking to just buy an owner list, Why would Bombardier (who is in the business of selling airplanes) sell the FlexJet owner list and be stuck with the 85 or so airplanes Flexjet has left. That really doesnt make a lot of sense. Now if Netjest was looking to buy the whole business I think it might be a better possibility.

Not to mention, no other frac operates Bombardier aircraft. I would have to think that if most of Flexjet's owners wanted to fly on Hawkers, Citations, Gulfstreams, whatever, they would've gone to a frac that had those in the first place.

I agree with gret... too much is being read into this.

 

[NJAowner]

Maybe NJ brings Marquis in house. No change to the Marquis customers, no new aircraft, NJ already handles owners services and everything but marketing (and NJ salesmen already represent Marquis as well) and NJ can handle the card business.

Plus, my guess is Marquis has an issue with a mismatch of owning shares and having a multiyear commitment but only selling cards in 1 year (or less) pieces. Generally, it would be called a mismatch of maturities between your assets and liabilities. if this is true, NJ can buy Marquis on the cheap since Marquis would already have a huge liability to NJ.

 

[RP170]

Maybe NJ brings Marquis in house. No change to the Marquis customers, no new aircraft, NJ already handles owners services and everything but marketing (and NJ salesmen already represent Marquis as well) and NJ can handle the card business.

Good points. The one thing I noticed in the article was that it said NJA was in talks with a "smaller competitor." Not sure Marquis would be considered as a competitor. Then again, that article could also be inaccurate.

My bet is Options or CitationAir. I think this would lock up future aircraft orders for NJA. Might be some sort of package deal with a manufacturer as well. Options has a tie in with Embraer and obviously Cessna with CitationAir. Ah heck, you could even throw Flex in there with Bombardier as well. Who knows........

I just hope it gets some of us off of the street and back in the cockpit. Time will tell.

 

[jonjuan]

Maybe NJ brings Marquis in house. No change to the Marquis customers, no new aircraft, NJ already handles owners services and everything but marketing (and NJ salesmen already represent Marquis as well) and NJ can handle the card business.

Plus, my guess is Marquis has an issue with a mismatch of owning shares and having a multiyear commitment but only selling cards in 1 year (or less) pieces. Generally, it would be called a mismatch of maturities between your assets and liabilities. if this is true, NJ can buy Marquis on the cheap since Marquis would already have a huge liability to NJ.

As I said earlier, gimme an EM.....

 

[NJAowner]

Marquis could be bought for very little.
There is no debt.
There are no new planes.
There are no new pilots.
There is no integration of anything other than some in sales (NJ and Marquis even have already consolidated owners events).
Marquis is competition, as it sells cards which NJ does very little of in the domestic market.
No new fleets, no new manufacturers to deal with.
Heck -- Marquis cardholders do not even need new phone numbers since they already feed into Columbus.
Marquis may be close to having cash flow problems (just speculation), so it can't pay its bills to NJ.
NJ already has extra shares to accommodate any growth in this area without adding a plane, pilot or operations person.
No pilots anywhere lose jobs.
Acquisitions do not get any easier than this.

 

[jehtplane]

I just hope it gets some of us off of the street and back in the cockpit. Time will tell.

And puts other guys on the street? Is that what you wish for?