Legacy Bashfest - Bring it on!

[O-Line]

Fl410

ONLY 5 DAYS TILL FL410 for the WSCoD!

I wonder if the WSCoDriverII will be doing the a "back course" approach at FL410

 

[O-Line]

Fl410

Yes. The FL410 certification is scheduled to take effect May 1, 2005.

Well, inquiring minds want to know if the WSCoD finally made it to FL410

 

[ERJ-140]

Well, inquiring minds want to know if the WSCoD finally made it to FL410

According the latest issue of Business and Corporate Aviation Magazine the Legacy has been certified for FL410. All new-build airplanes have it and older airplanes can be retrofitted. The are also coming with WI-FI Internet, Sattelite TV/Radio to go with the previously available phone system, and a new "upgraded standard" interior (the article did not elaborate). For end-2005/early-2006 expect fully integrated paperless cockpit (Electronic Flight Bag) and EVS certifications.

Can't find a link to the article online so you'll have to pick up a B&CA magazine at the FBO to see for yourself.

 

[ERJ-140]

Had to dig but here it is.



FL410 Capability announced March 28, 2005.

"Embraer will deliver the first aircraft with the 41,000 ft capability to new customers in the second quarter of 2005. The service bulletin for current Legacy owners will be made available upon request and some are already scheduled for implementation."


http://www.embraer.com.br/institucional/download/2_019-Prd-VAC-Legacy_41k_Certification-I-05.pdf

Similar article but not as detailed. Apparently this is old news.

http://www.embraer.com.br/institucional/download/2_021-Com-VAC-Labace_Show_2005-I-05.pdf

 

[miles otoole]

Still hangin' on, eh?

 

[ERJ-140]

Still hangin' on, eh?

Sorry, but I don't get the reference. The man asked a question and since I happened to read about this very thing at the airport three days ago I decided to look it up for him. Might as well contribute something of merit to this merit-less thread. People are a little edgy around here it seems.

 

[AcroChik]

You're Right, This Forum Has Lots Of Bad Attitude.

But...,

This is actually a terrific and funny thread with lots of merit.

Some intelligent and experienced people have shared a lot of knowledge in it.

And it's just laugh-your-socks-off funny.

Try actually reading it.

 

[ERJ-140]

I don't find 30:1 gangbangs humorous.

After reading the thread as far along as one can humanly stand to I have come to some conclusions.

First off, both sides are ignoring cogent points made by the other. LegacyDude makes some points and so does FalconDude.

Secondly, the Legacy is really not a competitor to the Gulfstream in a direct sense. The primary reason they are compared is their comparable size. Everyone looking at a Legacy thinks it's a Gulfstream-class airplane because it is big. Big yes, but direct competitor to Gulfstream, no. But to call it crappy because it won't go 5,000 miles is missing the point entirely. It is not made to compete in the ultra-long-range market - it is made to compete in the mid-size market.

You get a large-cabin airplane for a mid-size price with mid-size performance and costs. You also get an airplane where every part is tracked on a computer in the RJ fleet highlighting problems months or even years before a Corporate operator would see them. That is a pretty cool thing.

Thirdly, just because an argument is being drowned out by background noise doesn't make it invalid. The poor guy is getting out-yelled mostly. The signal to noise ratio on this thread is really poor - 1:12 at best.

Everyone should probably take a deep breath and leave the personal insults at the door. When the discussion deals with facts (and at this point I am at a total loss as to what is fact and what is not because people are citing multiple and conflicting sources - B&CA seems to support the bulk of LegacyDude's numbers regarding the Legacy's performance, not the numbers shown by GVFlyer) it is informative to some degree. I have learned more about Gulfstreams than I ever thought possible.

I have also found myself disappointed with the level of vitriol on this board. Dare I quote Rodney King?

No airplane is perfect, not even the mighty G550. For some the Legacy suits their mission requirements, for others no. We should just leave it at that. I think it is clear that calling the Legacy a piece of sh-- is unfair, just as comparing a Legacy to a G350 is unfair.

Flame away. Fire-proof underwear on.

 

[AcroChik]

I totally agree with you about the vitriol on this forum.

If you want even-handedness and rational discussion, in which each assertion is carefully substantiated, try the political threads here.

You have good vocabulary skills. I'm sure if you keep looking you'll find the "engaged" switch for your sense of humor

 

[Daveman]

Flame away. Fire-proof underwear on.

I believe under-roos are more like it. Lighten up Brah!!!

 

[Stearmandriver]

Huh? The ERJ is big? I can barely stand up in the thing, and I'm not all that tall...

 

[bigD]

If you want even-handedness and rational discussion, in which each assertion is carefully substantiated, try the political threads here.

LOL! Very true!

Mr. ERJ - this board is easily the best professional aviation resource on the net. You just need to learn how to pick and choose the nuggets of information, and come in with a healthy sense of humor. If you want to participate as well, it helps to have a thick skin too!

Also understand that in this particular thread, LegacyDriver made the mistake of making a bunch of rather vague statements about the plane in the midst of a bunch of detail oriented old codgers D).

 

[Heathen]

If you want even-handedness and rational discussion, in which each assertion is carefully substantiated, try the political threads here.

You have good vocabulary skills. I'm sure if you keep looking you'll find the "engaged" switch for your sense of humor

Hey AcroChik, why don't you apply at Fed-Ex. There may be a slot for you.
With your vocabulary skills, you should be a shoe-in.

 

[GVFlyer]

I think it is clear that calling the Legacy a piece of sh-- is unfair, just as comparing a Legacy to a G350 is unfair.

Much of the certification for the ERJ-135, upon which the Legacy is based, was conducted from our ramp. The same FAA Test Pilots from the Atlanta ACO that worked on GV cert performed the same function for the ERJ-135, as such I have fairly extensive knowledge of the Embraer and it's shortcomings. It is a fragile collection of expedients.

I chose the G350 for comparison - Legacy Driver was trying to compare the WSCoD to the G550 which is clearly absurd. I chose the G350 to demonstrate that for $6.35 million more than the cost of the Legacy you could purchase a Gulfstream with a 20 year warranty (Legacy-5 years) that would clearly outperform the Legacy in every way and on average retain 85-90 percent of it's value at resale.

No airplane is perfect, not even the mighty G550.

What do you feel to be wrong with the G550?

... B&CA seems to support the bulk of LegacyDude's numbers regarding the Legacy's performance, not the numbers shown by GVFlyer) it is informative to some degree. I have learned more about Gulfstreams than I ever thought possible.

Business and Commercial Aviation's data is notoriously inaccurate. For instance, on the G550 they got the Pressurization System numbers wrong as well as the long range, normal and high speed cruise speeds.

The Aircraft Performance Data, Dimensional Data and Direct Operating Costs I used are from Conklin & de Decker Fall 2004, the acknowledged commercial source for business aviation data. This is a service which we purchase. The data from the engineers in Gulfstream Sales Engineering / Technical Marketing is more accurate, but a.) It is proprietary and b.) I didn’t use it to avoid comments like yours.



If you feel that the data provided by Conklin and de Decker is inaccurate you can contact them directly with your corrections at:



Headquarters
Conklin & de Decker Associates
62B Cranberry Highway
Orleans, MA 02653
Telephone 508.255.5975
Facsimile 508.255.9380
Email [email protected]



GV







~

 

[banned username 2]

What do you feel to be wrong with the G550?

The brakes...

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

The brakes...

You've GOT to be kidding.

Ace

 

[AcroChik]

GV Does It Again

Speaking of the WSCoD he writes (and I quote with relish), "It is a fragile collection of expedients."

Coming from a man who never responds to wanton lunacy or taunts with vitriol, whose default is rationality and to dig for and analyze data, the above line is as defining as the nom de farce by which this pilloried airframe in now globally known. And I'm still laughing.

And from Heathen, "Hey AcroChik, why don't you apply at Fed-Ex. There may be a slot for you. With your vocabulary skills, you should be a shoe-in."

Thanks for the invite. Just now, the only thing they'd hire me for is answering phones. I'm young and there's lots of quality hours still to be to be flown. But, one day, maybe, baby.

 

[AA717driver]

The brakes on the 550 are universally reviled in my department. You might as well have an "on/off" switch. Simply possessing massive stopping power is not enough. You shouldn't have to devote 95% of your attention on the ground to avoiding having the owner join you in the cockpit (involuntarily!).

That, and "Cert B" broke a lot of things that weren't broken prior to that installation.

But, if you want to fly 8 pax 11+ hours at M.85, there's not much competition out there.TC

 

[banned username 2]

You've GOT to be kidding.

Ace

Why am I kidding? I'm not referring to their overall stopping power... I'm referring to what AA717 said...

 

[NJAFracPilot]

Speaking of the WSCoD he writes (and I quote with relish), "It is a fragile collection of expedients."

Coming from a man who never responds to wanton lunacy or taunts with vitriol, whose default is rationality and to dig for and analyze data, the above line is as defining as the nom de farce by which this pilloried airframe in now globally known. And I'm still laughing.

You sure do have a way with words, AcroChik!