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Legacy Airlines Hot Again

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FDJ2

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Posts
3,908
Just like Boyd predicted!

AP
Legacy Airlines Hot Again
Wednesday October 25, 12:52 pm ET
By Stan Choe, AP Business Writer

Legacy Carriers Suddenly Hot Again on Wall Street

NEW YORK (AP) -- The nation's legacy airlines, previously cast aside by some investors, are suddenly hot again.
So far this earnings season, it's been the old-line hub carriers churning out strong profit reports and topping analysts' expectations. Low-cost competitors, meanwhile, have fallen short of Wall Street forecasts or announced scaled-back growth plans.
It's a stark turnaround from a year ago, when the list of network carriers in, entering or exiting Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection included Delta Air Lines, Northwest Airlines, United Airlines' parent and US Airways. The old-line carriers were seeking to cut costs and restructure to better compete with the upstart low-cost carriers.
The reason for the spotlight shift back to legacy carriers, analysts say, is due partly to heightened airport security this summer and partly to the preferences of business fliers.
After British police broke up a plot to bomb trans-Atlantic flights in August, a liquids ban and stepped-up airport security meant longer lines and bigger headaches for travelers.
That hurt all airlines, but it affected low-cost carrier Southwest Airlines Co. even more so, analysts say.
The Dallas-based carrier specializes in shorter routes than its legacy competitors. Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl wrote in a recent report that some of Southwest's potential passengers likely drove to their destinations rather than deal with airport delays and carry-on restrictions.
Cathay Financial analyst Susan Donofrio wrote in a research note that Southwest's average flight length is less than half that of any of the major airlines, meaning it may have a slower revenue recovery.
Southwest said last week the heightened security measures drained away more than $40 million in August and September revenue, or 1.7 percent of its total $2.34 billion in quarterly revenue.
American Airlines' parent, AMR Corp., meanwhile, said the terrorist scare hurt its August and September revenue by more $50 million. While AMR's overall number was bigger than Southwest's, it's proportionately smaller, amounting to less than 1 percent of AMR's total $5.85 billion in quarterly revenue.
Another reason American Airlines and other legacy carriers have better absorbed the security impact is because they're typically the carriers of choice for corporate travel, analysts say.
With merger and acquisition activity booming again, hordes of investment bankers and lawyers are taking to the sky to close deals. While low-cost carriers often offer lower fares and such amenities as leather seats and live television in coach cabins, corporate travelers tend to pump revenue into the legacy carriers, analysts say.
"Put differently, investment bankers typically eschew Live TV and chipper flight attendants in favor of larger, more expensive seats and, well, less chipper flight attendants," JP Morgan analyst Jamie Baker wrote in a recent research report.
Looking forward, analysts say the worst of the security woes are behind Southwest, as the government eases some of the heightened security restrictions.
But several analysts say they still have a bias for legacy carriers, which are able to drive more revenue from corporate travelers looking for first-class cabins and international connections.
 
See! I told you so! A couple of years ago, I predicted the LCC's would be in serious trouble and the Legacies would come storming back.

No, wait. I actually said the Legacies were toast and the LCC's would rule the skies.

Hummm... Maybe I have a bright future ahead of me as a Wall St. analyst. :rolleyes: ;) TC
 
See! I told you so! A couple of years ago, I predicted the LCC's would be in serious trouble and the Legacies would come storming back.

No, wait. I actually said the Legacies were toast and the LCC's would rule the skies.

Hummm... Maybe I have a bright future ahead of me as a Wall St. analyst. :rolleyes: ;) TC

LMAO! Don't you need to tell everyone you're an expert too??:laugh:
 
I can't wait until the Legacies start to hire again.......
 
I can't wait until the Legacies start to hire again.......

Amen Brother....then all these freakin commuter FOs' with a total of 1 year experience (no $hit, I'm standing next to one right now as she whines about her schedule and latest recommendations) will bail from the LCCs and leave us with just aviators who fly because they love flying and are actually good at it!
 
Amen Brother....then all these freakin commuter FOs' with a total of 1 year experience (no $hit, I'm standing next to one right now as she whines about her schedule and latest recommendations) will bail from the LCCs and leave us with just aviators who fly because they love flying and are actually good at it!


No, SHE will probably get hired before the rest of us even get a chance to interview
 
I can't wait until the Legacies start to hire again.......

Amen brother. I have a good posibilty with CAL by next spring if I get the hours. If not then I believe I might have a shot at United with their minimums. I can only dream!
 
Amen brother. I have a good possibilty with CAL by next spring if I get the hours. If not then I believe I might have a shot at United with their minimums. I can only dream!

Dreaming is fine... but as a CFI with 900 hrs you're hoping for CAL in a few months? You must be really well connected; if not, with that low time, you wouldn't stand a chance when in competition with 10,000 other applicants with thousands of hours of RJ time...

Or, are you just trolling?
 
Dreaming is fine... but as a CFI with 900 hrs you're hoping for CAL in a few months? You must be really well connected; if not, with that low time, you wouldn't stand a chance when in competition with 10,000 other applicants with thousands of hours of RJ time...

Or, are you just trolling?

I am. I also need to update my profile. I've got jet time.
 
YOU'VE GOT JET TIME??????? man..... I wish I had jet time:rolleyes:.

Man, if I just had some jet time, 1000 hours of turbine PIC time and maybe a 737 type rating, I'd be golden.

Oh wait.................
 
I thought he was talking about Legacy Airlines in Utica. The return of Padre!!!

LOL! Padre... what a joke! I remember a good USAir buddy of mine was really looking into that outfit. He quit when he realized that Padre is Spanish for "hot air!"

73
 
Amen brother. I have a good posibilty with CAL by next spring if I get the hours. If not then I believe I might have a shot at United with their minimums. I can only dream!

United? All you need is 300 hours and a pulse. Better yet, you could always become an intern and get hired that way!
 
This will help them.

CHICAGO - Citing high fuel prices, United Airlines said Friday it has increased fares by $6 per round trip on flights to some cities also served by lower-cost carriers.
American Airlines, a unit AMR Corp., immediately matched the move, spokesman Tim Wagner said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15443971/
 
You guys crack me up. This thread is on the subject of finacial viability of Legacy carriers and look how quickly the subject turned. I think the experimantal hiring that happened in the 90's is mostly gone for now.

I'll make a serious attempt to comment on this but we have a firecracker of a subject here when we move past obvious lame jokes.

Do you think a former furloughee with 10 type ratings and 12000 hours who came back and gets on the interview board and represents over 25 percent of the airline population who got hosed for the last 5 to 8 years is going to put up with 500 or 1000 hour new hires? What about all the people they worked along side in the corporate, regional or supplemental ranks? You don't think there will be pressure to hire those types of people?

EEOC? It got a lot of traction in the 90's and had been proven in the most egregious circumstances and was a big scary stick for those who knew who they were on the inside.

I have friends who were really harrassed and were picked on due to their race. It was a reality in the airlines in the 80's, and well, it is in society even today in some parts of the country behind closed doors. I on the other hand truly benefitted from being a white male and having to be over-qualified by comparison to get my shot. Whatever, we all pay the price for racism, no matter what our color. (I grew up being a minority as a white kid, I have absolutely no tolerance for racism as I had been the occasional target, and correspondingly, I have little tolerance for over the top affirmative action that is out of place in our generation).

Now that minorities and women represent a significant portion of the population in the airline ranks (where they did not in the 1980's by the way) we will see more merit based hiring and less affirmative action by force.

My hope and sincere objective as a person in a leadership position in the industry is that we will continue to see plenty of minority and women pilots being hired, but on their merits and experience alone.
 
what!!!!!!!!!!!!!

legacies will continue their stupidity and be right back to bankruptcy as soon as they figure out how to screw this up.(period) .....you cant shrink yourself to greatness.....
 
United? All you need is 300 hours and a pulse. Better yet, you could always become an intern and get hired that way!

No kidding Bosley. At the flight school I use to teach at we had a United forloughee who taught on the FTD. Funny thing was, she wasn't allowed to teach in the multi engine planes. You know why, the boss wouldn't check her out because she was horrible and dangerous. I got nervous in the FTD with her. Now that is bad.
 
What?

Last time I checked Women only made up 7% of the pilot force. That was published in AOPA about three years ago. Women and minorities are still being hired based on their gender/race. One of the absolute worst FO's I ever flew with got hired at Continental with 2500 TT and 200 PIC Turbine and no jet time. He was 24 years old and couldn't fly or think his way out of a wet paper sack. He didn't know anyone either, magically he got a call after submitting an application. Also I know of two women who got a call after just sending in resumes to two different LCC's. They were both less qualified than me and several of my fellow white male pilots who sent in resumes.

Its a fact of life and I accept that. As a white male I will always take a back seat to women and minorities in hiring situations. In reality 7%-12% is not going to keep me from getting the job I want though. The only thing that will prevent me from getting hired is me and my actions. I can complain but it will do nothing to change the facts. (Complaining does make me a real pilot though) :)

GP

sorry if the spelling sucks, typing is not my strong point
 
I flew with a white male, he was terrible, I don't know how he got his job. Terrible stick and no personality. I also know of a white male who got a job over a higher qualified candidate, just because he knew somebody. I look around the pilot lounge and all I see is white males. It's unbelievable. These airlines seem to just hire white males.
 
No kidding. We need a couple Haley Berries or Faith Hills with pilots licenses to apply. I know they couldn't get hired as Flight Attendants.

Gup
 

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