Leave Airtran for United??

[tubelcane]

So more Airtran is the worst bullsh#$. I guess you're still thinking of a comeback for the rest of my post.

 

[TV9Driver]

gt1900,

While generally i'd agree with you about the upgrade, i've been about 40 numbers away from holding captain on the last 3 bids. Also, with the reduction in new airplanes showing up this year, they might stop upgrades for the rest of the year like they did for about 6 months last year. That's what I mean by it being a crap shoot. It isn't nearly as stable as it was a year ago.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Yuppy you should take frog with you.

 

[ToThePain]

Those you dont care about upgrade obviously want to work to 65. Think about this. If United mergers with anyone they will have overlap. Overlap means they are not going to keep that frequency in. This also means any old airframes will be weeded out of both carriers. Then you want to add in Uniteds great scope clause (not) and you can almost garuntee that you will see many of those EMB 175s or 190s (in the future) doing the roots of the old small narrowbody jets that they got rid of. Let somone else take the risk with buying new airframes like Chatauqua. Airtran is a growth airline that has slots in many every major hub. Think about that. If they get bought a few years down the road and you have seniority you may end up quite well in a shuffle if not you will still upgrade faster which means you dont have to work forever. I would rather be a captain on an okay day making good money than an FO having a great day making crap.

There may be some overlap. If they merge with CAL there is only like a 4% overlap. Both are still hiring, I can't imagine that would change a whole lot. Also figure there will be so many fences put up that if you are already there you would be in a better situation that if you tried later. Not saying you should leave, QOL is very important and if leaving meant no commute then I would leave.

 

[johnsonrod]

absolutely NO REGRETS! I liked my regional better than your place...and as far as our scabs go...they know their place yours'....hell they run your training dept. and all you ever hear is the famous "back at eastern" line. Screw that ********************. I won't hurt ya'lls feelns anymore though by saying such negative stuff.

I feel sorry for your boyfriend. Don't hate the player, hate the GAME...

 

[BigMeat]

170's = pretty much the same thing as the 175's right? Or am i mistaken?

Either way flying the 170 would be cheaper than operating the 737-500. Those routes than are low yield would get some of these Im sure. Either way United let go of their scope and I am correct I believe that the regionals that are allowed to fly are on a one for one basis. This is what scares me about going to or merging with United. They dont have to shell out the cash for newer 100 seat aircraft. Chataqua is already begging them to do it. At least Airtran flys their own routes. American is fighting to get their scope back. Continental has held the line at 50 seaters (the only one to do so) and will fight to keep it this way. Airtran is a good company and the grass is not always greener.

 

[easydoesit]

Stay in the grocery line you are standing in. As soon as you move, somebody has to get their check looked at by a manager, go get a new box of Cheerios cuz the one they have is open. You stand there and watch the people who were behind you in your original line, go right out the door with their groceries.

Same rules apply here especially since you've been standing in line for over a year. Remember, not many people wanted to go to SWA in the late 90's. AirTran will be a great place in a few years. Mark my words.

 

[Sunking]

Curious George, its a tough decision. Just to add to your mix of emotions, there are more UAL guys here at AAI that gave up their 1999-2001 seniority number than those that went back. Most of my friends, and I'll add friends that are senior to me , at UAL urged me not to come back unless I have no where else to go. Best of luck to you in whatever your decision will be.

 

[hoover]

late 30's.
F.O. with 18 months in.
Discuss:

Interesting question. I used the stats from Airline Pilot Central and came up with the following

Assumptions:
25 years of flying remaining

Earn minimum guarantee
United 65 hours, Air Tran 70 hours

Air Tran: 3 years as FO, then Upgrade
United: 5 years 737 FO, 5 years 75/76 FO, 5 years A320 CA, 5 Years 75/76, 5 Years 777 CA

Air Tran Earnings: $2,809,800
United Earnings: 2,468,700

I realize this is oversimplified, but an apples to apples comparison shows you make more $ at Air Tran.

Now consider that Air Tran is growing, United is not.
You are also more likely to become much more senior at Air Tran than you evel will at United, allowing for better QOL.

If it were me, I think I'd stay at Air Tran.

 

[Lear70]

That analysis is only valid if you use the same number of credit house.

You can't use guarantee. NO ONE flies ONLY guarantee for their entire career.

Try going back in and using an 80 hour base (960 hours per year) for both, and I think you'll see it is probably about the same amount of money over the entire career... however...

Neither carrier is going to stay at those rates. AAI will likely increase somewhere between 5-7% for CA's on the next T.A. and F/O's will likely go to 10-15% or higher (not to mention that the ONLY AAI pilots who are going to upgrade in Year 3 are the guys who have ALREADY BEEN THERE for 3 years. New-hires are looking at 7+ years).

Look for UAL to try to grab back at least 10-15% across the board as well, even though they're having some financial issues these days.

The biggest single issue, since money is fairly equal, is Quality of Life.

Like others have said: IF you have the choice, pick the company for its bases, its culture, and how good your life will be working there. The money is so close as to not be an issue between these two companies... at least for now.

 

[Big Slick]

A lot of articles I have read lately seem to suggest that the domestic market is about tapped out. The large carriers are making most of their money flying overseas now a days. So, even though the domestic LCC seems like the safe bet today, you never know. Plus, if I had to bet on a winner in the LCC domestic competition, it wouldn't be Air Tran. No offense.

I think you also have to ask yourself if you want to fly domestic the rest of your life. Flying a 747-400 to Japan would be pretty sweet - even as a copilot. Yes, I have shiny jet syndrome.

Final advice: Who the hell knows? If I could predict the future, I'd win the World Series of Poker and retire.

Here is an excerpt from Boyd:
[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]The Boyd Group has noted that Southwest will be the industry's most dangerous airline competitor in the coming 18 months. It's now coming to pass.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Not because of the value of its traditional operational model, which lightweight analysts consistently mischaracterize with terms like "regional" or "short haul" or their favorite, "point to point," - all of which are inaccurate - but because Southwest understands the weaknesses in that traditional model.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]They've moved to position themselves as an airline perfect for business travelers. Not that they ever eschewed such traffic (take a gander at the folks in line at Love Field on Monday mornings) but now they're re-structuring and re-positioning to claw that sector away from other airlines with new advertising, new fare products and a revised boarding system that's still a long way from seat selection, but is no longer as reminiscent of lunchtime at the feed lot.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]More To Come. This is just the first in what will be a continuing major product and route shift at Southwest. The one trend that this continues to enforce is that WN must concentrate on large, higher-yield markets. Small and mid-size markets: Please tumble to the fact that Southwest isn't coming to town. Save that money and cancel the silly MIDT study. Other LCCs: Do plan on Southwest going after your hide.[/FONT]

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Interesting question. I used the stats from Airline Pilot Central and came up with the following

Assumptions:
25 years of flying remaining

Earn minimum guarantee
United 65 hours, Air Tran 70 hours

Air Tran: 3 years as FO, then Upgrade
United: 5 years 737 FO, 5 years 75/76 FO, 5 years A320 CA, 5 Years 75/76, 5 Years 777 CA

Air Tran Earnings: $2,809,800
United Earnings: 2,468,700

I realize this is oversimplified, but an apples to apples comparison shows you make more $ at Air Tran.

Now consider that Air Tran is growing, United is not.
You are also more likely to become much more senior at Air Tran than you evel will at United, allowing for better QOL.

If it were me, I think I'd stay at Air Tran.

Don't forget rigs and retirement contributions.

Also, negotiation power....

 

[PCL_128]

Don't forget rigs and retirement contributions.

Also, negotiation power....

I'm pretty sure that our rigs and work rules exceed UAL's, even after the recent LOA. UAL does have the advantage with reserve work rules, but I think that's about it. Our B-fund is higher, but UAL also has a C-fund. In the end, it all pretty much balances out, especially when you figure in that upgrade here is about half of what it will be for a newhire at UAL. UAL has the widebody international flying for those that care about such things, so that's something else to consider. Basically, the money will probably end up being a wash, even including work rules and retirement, so you should probably make your decision based on something other than money. Domiciles, equipment, job security, etc... are all things to consider. If I was a regional guy and had a job offer from each of them, I'd probably take UAL, but as someone already with an AAI number, I wouldn't give it up.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

UAL has the widebody international flying for those that care about such things,

I'm sure that flying the heavy Iron around the world and making good money doing it is something not much people care about

 

[PCL_128]

I'm sure that flying the heavy Iron around the world and making good money doing it is something not much people care about

I'd rather fly my fancied up -9 from here to CLT. Twelve hours in an airplane? No thanks. But to each his own.

 

[400ADude]

I'd rather fly my fancied up -9 from here to CLT. Twelve hours in an airplane? No thanks. But to each his own.

Management has got to love you.

 

[400ADude]

I'm pretty sure that our rigs and work rules exceed UAL's, even after the recent LOA. UAL does have the advantage with reserve work rules, but I think that's about it. Our B-fund is higher, but UAL also has a C-fund. In the end, it all pretty much balances out, especially when you figure in that upgrade here is about half of what it will be for a newhire at UAL. UAL has the widebody international flying for those that care about such things, so that's something else to consider. Basically, the money will probably end up being a wash, even including work rules and retirement, so you should probably make your decision based on something other than money. Domiciles, equipment, job security, etc... are all things to consider. If I was a regional guy and had a job offer from each of them, I'd probably take UAL, but as someone already with an AAI number, I wouldn't give it up.

You sound like your set on the pay rates!

 

[IAHERJ]

12 hours with a nice long break in a bunk. 1 leg. several 4 course meals served with a multiday layover at a 5 star hotel at the other end. Fly back and spend more days off per month with your family or whatever doing what you want because your trips are more productive allowing you to only have to go to work 3-4 times a month. You are right though, to each his/her own.

IAHERJ

 

[fletch717]

12 hours with a nice long break in a bunk. 1 leg. several 4 course meals served with a multiday layover at a 5 star hotel at the other end. Fly back and spend more days off per month with your family or whatever doing what you want because your trips are more productive allowing you to only have to go to work 3-4 times a month. You are right though, to each his/her own.

IAHERJ

If, Thats a big IF you are senior enough to hold that schedule as a captain then you have it pretty good. 95% don't

By the way what's the time to hold that at CAL?
my guess is 20plus.

 

[Lear70]

You have to admit, only a small percentage of airline pilots ever get that cush of a schedule...

I imagine that most CAL guys are doing the same domestic stuff we are with the same schedule and layovers.

Would be nice to have the ability to do that later on, but I'd imagine living in your base (as PCL does) would be worth its weight in gold...