Lear 25D: Pros and cons please

[Hugh Johnson]

Conklin and Decker have the 25d variable costs at around 3 grand/hr, 31 is around 2.

 

[LJ45]

31a or 35 would be a much better choice if you want an older Lear.

 

[NCherches]

...31A is much nicer to fly than the 35 in my opinion

 

[Rick1128]

...31A is much nicer to fly than the 35 in my opinion

I haven't flown the 31A, but I have flown a 31 with the extended range kit. It was a bear to keep in CG. Plus had a dinky baggage compartment. But the 35 has better range and a higher gross weight. Plus I believe most of the 31's only have the executive (narrow) door. Add in that the 31A is much newer, the buy in price is much higher.

Doing the RVSM upgraded to the 35 really helped the 200 autopilot. Much smoother.

As for fuel burn, on the 25 your will normally see around 600 P/h per side at idle during taxi. That is pretty close to what you will see for fuel burn at cruise at or above FL410. That is why you will see many 20 series taxiing on one engine. The only problem with that is that it puts a lot of strain on the nose wheel steering. The 3o's burn right around 200 p/h per side on taxi. On takeoff at sea level the fuel flow gauges will be pegged above 3000 p/h per side.

 

[LJ45]

I haven't flown the 31A, but I have flown a 31 with the extended range kit. It was a bear to keep in CG. Plus had a dinky baggage compartment. But the 35 has better range and a higher gross weight. Plus I believe most of the 31's only have the executive (narrow) door. Add in that the 31A is much newer, the buy in price is much higher.

Doing the RVSM upgraded to the 35 really helped the 200 autopilot. Much smoother.

As for fuel burn, on the 25 your will normally see around 600 P/h per side at idle during taxi. That is pretty close to what you will see for fuel burn at cruise at or above FL410. That is why you will see many 20 series taxiing on one engine. The only problem with that is that it puts a lot of strain on the nose wheel steering. The 3o's burn right around 200 p/h per side on taxi. On takeoff at sea level the fuel flow gauges will be pegged above 3000 p/h per side.

We had two 31a's both had wide doors, all I have seen have wide doors. With standard fuel you have no CG problems. I think the narrow door is rare and ER fuel is rare also because of the lost of baggage space. Standard fuel range is @ 1200 nm no wind. The 31 does fly great, needs little runway and you can't normally overload it with the availbile higher TO weights. The avionics and autopilot are great in the 31a.

 

[LongBoarder]

With the cookie cutter diffusers on the back of the 610's people will honestly laugh and point... There are so few of them out there... and in addition to that you lose the use of the TR's and combine that with high ref speeds and little tiny wheels and brakes.... it gets even more fun to try and stop.

It will climb all the way to FL410 at .78 and still be at max gross weight once it reaches FL410 assuming that you miscalculated your take off weight... ;-)

LB

 

[Rick1128]

With the cookie cutter diffusers on the back of the 610's people will honestly laugh and point... There are so few of them out there... and in addition to that you lose the use of the TR's and combine that with high ref speeds and little tiny wheels and brakes.... it gets even more fun to try and stop.

It will climb all the way to FL410 at .78 and still be at max gross weight once it reaches FL410 assuming that you miscalculated your take off weight... ;-)
LB

I have flown the 20's with and without TRs. The loose of TRs is not a big deal. Using aerodynamic braking and a light touch on the brakes, you can get more life out of the brakes then most of the guys who use the TRs. On the Dee Howard TRs, the engines tend to spool up before the clamshells are fully closed. Without the TRs the aircraft is quite a bit lighter and you get a touch more performance out of the aircraft.

As for the high ref speeds, that only applies to the original wing. And I can't remember the last time I saw one. On the Mark II wing, the FAA put out a bulletin to add additional speed to the landing speeds. Mostly because the FAA was scared to death of the aircraft.

 

[NCherches]

Personally I like to fly any Lear with Winglets vs. one with Tanks....

 

[gear_guy]

The Sabre 65 will be tough on mx too. Parts are, of course, out of production. However, very nice flying airplane in all facets of flight. We used to get our mx done in perryville, mo. No problem with de-ice. Kind of a hog on hot days, but what isn't. The 25D is also a great airplane. My first jet, so I am biased towards it. So much fun to fly. But I swear I got about 4 inches shorter over the time I flew it. Very small cockpit.

 

[NCherches]

...Seems like all of the Lear 25D's around have 'XA' Tail numbers...

 

[LR25]

Westwind is more airplane and does more than the Lear, but operating cost will be the consideration.

CJ-610's are bullet proof, as most of the 20 series Lears are as well. But if parts are getting to be a concern for 20 series, then maybe a 30 series or Westwind will be a better choice. 35's are for grandpas though, just sayin, but then this isnt the 90's anymore either.

 

[McLovin]

Thanks again. Great feedback!

 

[Headwind]

The Sabre 65 will be tough on mx too. Parts are, of course, out of production. However, very nice flying airplane in all facets of flight. We used to get our mx done in perryville, mo. No problem with de-ice. Kind of a hog on hot days, but what isn't. The 25D is also a great airplane. My first jet, so I am biased towards it. So much fun to fly. But I swear I got about 4 inches shorter over the time I flew it. Very small cockpit.

Sabreliner Corporation, at the old factory in Missouri, still makes all parts for all Sabreliners. They will guarantee any part for any Sabre within 14 days. Much better support than many "still in production" aircraft.

Cessna wants the old Citations to go away. Lear is the same way with 20 & 30 series. Sabreliner Corp., because of the many military Sabre's flying, is in business to support their out of production aircraft.

 

[Kingairrick]

Get a Falcon 10. Bigger cabin, faster, more range, easier to fly and live with.

 

[propsarebest]

FWIW...

A big +1 on BOTH the Sabre 65 and the Falcon 10. You WILL NOT find better product support for an out of production aircraft than Sabreliner. They are top notch. In a previous life, i worked for a company that had both a Falcon 10 and a 65 on their 135 cert. Both are excellent airplanes, with the 65 being a little better. It has GREAT range for a biz jet.

Just be sure to get a Falcon 10 with the single point fueling mod...