LCC/AMR Merger offer

[OHGOON]

It always seems to me that in bankruptcy competing plans should be allowed from day-1 so the creditors can compare deals (including the option of partial or total liquidation) to get the best return. The idea of leaving the management team of a failed company in place with the exclusive right to offer a reorganization plan always seemed strange to me. It's one of the things that makes bankruptcy such an attractive option; it creates a moral hazard issue especially when management teams are awarded new management contracts and equity stakes after the reorganization. Failure can be very profitable for a management team.

And here we have it! Legalized corruption. Mexico does it with guns and we do it with lawyers, judges and bought Congressional lackeys. Chapter 11 is the most corrupt law I have ever witnessed. Incentivizing management mediocrity is not in the best interests of anyone but the idiots who are trying to bilk the system at whatever the cost to the rest of society. :angryfire

 

[jrcpilot]

Don't underestimate the power of happy motivated employees...

Really? you think that the Employees at SWA are all happy and motivated? Thats not what I hear from the SWA employees.

 

[OHGOON]

Really? you think that the Employees at SWA are all happy and motivated? Thats not what I hear from the SWA employees.

Sad but true from what I hear as well.

It looks like the Brady Bunch days might be coming to a close over there too. :erm:

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Ah! it only took until page 3 for the SWA bashers to chime in, slow day again
It could end up being US Air West V US Air East V AA pilots wow a Ménage à trois

 

[Skybus]

If you listen to the 5% which may now be the 10% you may be right. The other 80 to 95% of us are very happy, just not thrilled at having to compete with a bankrupt industry/employees/contracts.

 

[get2flyin]

Ah! it only took until page 3 for the SWA bashers to chime in, slow day again
It could end up being US Air West V US Air East V AA pilots wow a Ménage à trois

There is no East and West. Only the unified pilots of USAir, equally represented by the U.S. Airways Pilot's Association. Sorry, no Ménage.

 

[Turtle21]

There is no East and West. Only the unified pilots of USAir, equally represented by the U.S. Airways Pilot's Association. Sorry, no Ménage.

Not sure how unified I would say the USAir pilots are but there is no doubt who gets to bargain on their behalf.

President's Message


Fellow Pilots,

This afternoon, December 10th, your Officers, Board of Pilots Representatives (BPR) and Negotiating Advisory Committee (NAC) conducted a two-hour informational conference call regarding the potential merger of US Airways and AMR (American Airlines).

With the approval of the BPR, your union has entered into discussions about a potential merger with AMR, Allied Pilots Association (APA), the Unsecured Creditors Committee (UCC) and US Airways management. These discussions begin this week in Dallas. President Gary Hummel and Executive Vice President Steve Smyser will join the NAC, USAPA Professional Negotiator and USAPA General Counsel in these talks.

Because of the work your BPR has to do, the Regular Quarterly BPR Meeting will go on as planned. Vice President Steve Bradford will preside over this meeting. We will do our best to keep you informed as developments occur.

Respectfully,

Gary Hummel - President

"US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”

The parties in Dallas won't be interrupted.

 

[General Lee]

Not sure how unified I would say the USAir pilots are but there is no doubt who gets to bargain on their behalf.




The parties in Dallas won't be interrupted.

Sure, they can bargain for them, but after the NIC award is actually implemented. I can't wait!


Read this AGAIN: Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground. (Doc. 193, p.7.)--Judge Silver


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

16,560 :laugh:

 

[Dornier 335]

Sure, they can bargain for them, but after the NIC award is actually implemented. I can't wait!


Read this AGAIN: Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground. (Doc. 193, p.7.)--Judge Silver


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why don't you all tell us how your mighty airline treated the PA and WA pilots!

I can't wait!

16561

 

[B-atch]

The general perceives himself as being of higher moral character than others, not of his pedigree. He sincerely believes to be the keeper of all wisdom and all things sacred to airline pilot seniority integration, amongst his many talents. All present and previous wrongs in the mighty Delta club shall bear no meaning when compared to US mere mortals trying to right an obvious wrong.....
Merry Christmas general...

 

[fam62c]

The smart thing to do do here would be to make a joint CBA and a negotiated SLI a pre-condition of any merger. If you don't do that you end up with a situation like they have at LCC where you can't combine the operations to maximize efficiency. The labor piece of this merger will be an ugly, lengthy nightmare.

 

[Dan Roman]

. The labor piece of this merger will be an ugly, lengthy nightmare.

.....and that may very well be an understatement.

 

[OHGOON]

.....and that may very well be an understatement.

Nah, they're just gonna staple em to the bottom of the AA list....ahh wait, wait, who is buying whom again?? Oh well, good luck. National Seniority List looks better and better everyday...?

 

[Turtle21]

The smart thing to do do here would be to make a joint CBA and a negotiated SLI a pre-condition of any merger. If you don't do that you end up with a situation like they have at LCC where you can't combine the operations to maximize efficiency. The labor piece of this merger will be an ugly, lengthy nightmare.

Exactly. Yesterday Crandall was on Bloomberg and said twice, The key issue is pilot SLI. Without pilot SLI cooperation, there cant' be a merger. I think the APA and USAPA can figure it out, and besides, APA and USAPA both see that they have to figure this out rather than risk the alternative. Its a sure bet that the UCC won't accept anything other than a negotiated SLI, pronto.

 

[OHGOON]

The smart thing to do do here would be to make a joint CBA and a negotiated SLI a pre-condition of any merger. If you don't do that you end up with a situation like they have at LCC where you can't combine the operations to maximize efficiency. The labor piece of this merger will be an ugly, lengthy nightmare.

Agreed that would be the smart thing to do. There is only one problem. The timeline of that process would be years, by then the deal will have long since fallen apart because the money boys think in terms of quarter year projections. The only way, if it happens at all, is full steam ahead and the rest will have to muddle through. Crazy a$$ industry we tied our personal fortunes to...:nuts:

 

[vetrider]

Exactly. Yesterday Crandall was on Bloomberg and said twice, The key issue is pilot SLI. Without pilot SLI cooperation, there cant' be a merger. I think the APA and USAPA can figure it out, and besides, APA and USAPA both see that they have to figure this out rather than risk the alternative. Its a sure bet that the UCC won't accept anything other than a negotiated SLI, pronto.

Maybe this is really the UCC giving DP his one last shot. As in 'ok Dug, let's see if you can pull this off. We want to see how you're gonna do it, show us. If you can't, then bugger off.'

 

[General Lee]

Why don't you all tell us how your mighty airline treated the PA and WA pilots!

I can't wait!

16561

Was there arbitration involved? Did either side agree to it first and THEN disregard the award? Since PA and WA, which I wasn't around to actually see at the airline, airlines have used BINDING arbitration to solve these types of disputes, and other financial disputes have been solved this way, like NFL salary disputes. How would it have looked in the press if an NFL owner lost in BINDING arbitration to his player and had to pay up, but instead cried like a baby and said "No! I won't do it! No!" Well, welcome to USAPA. Bad examples Dornier.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

Maybe this is really the UCC giving DP his one last shot. As in 'ok Dug, let's see if you can pull this off. We want to see how you're gonna do it, show us. If you can't, then bugger off.'

If they have now invited the unions to the table, then they already had that conversation with DUI. I suspect that DUI and the UCC are pretty much on one side of the table and are presenting the requirement of a negotiated SLI to the Unions. A deal they can't refuse. IMHO. YMMV.

 

[vetrider]

If they have now invited the unions to the table, then they already had that conversation with DUI. I suspect that DUI and the UCC are pretty much on one side of the table and are presenting the requirement of a negotiated SLI to the Unions. A deal they can't refuse. IMHO. YMMV.

I think you are right.

 

[ackattacker]

If they have now invited the unions to the table, then they already had that conversation with DUI. I suspect that DUI and the UCC are pretty much on one side of the table and are presenting the requirement of a negotiated SLI to the Unions. A deal they can't refuse. IMHO. YMMV.

I suspect you are right.

I also suspect we will hear something before the new year.

 

[Turtle21]

If APA and USAPA have been doing their job they already have a list and are showing up ready to discuss scope and other aspects of the contract. IMHO. YMMV.

 

[Flyby1206]

Maybe this is really the UCC giving DP his one last shot. As in 'ok Dug, let's see if you can pull this off. We want to see how you're gonna do it, show us. If you can't, then bugger off.'

I agree. Since this is all under BK court AMR needs to be extra careful to cover their bases before telling Doug to F-off, or else there will be serious lawsuits.

If they have now invited the unions to the table, then they already had that conversation with DUI. I suspect that DUI and the UCC are pretty much on one side of the table and are presenting the requirement of a negotiated SLI to the Unions. A deal they can't refuse. IMHO. YMMV.

I think this is a part of the above logic of covering their bases as well. APA has been a big proponent of a US merger, and AMR needs to make sure they are briefed on the specific reasons the UCC isnt going to pursue that idea.

Or, im completely wrong and a merger will be announced soon good arguements can be made for both directions, but thats the fun of it

 

[Turtle21]

Seems to me that Delta's 49% ownership in Virgin Atlantic makes AMR stand alone exit more risky than it was last week. The UCC will have to decide if there is more value and acceptable risk in the merge scenario. LCC stock price leans "merge". IMHO.

 

[dollacrackho]

Nword please . This merger is a done deal just finishing up trying to eek some more money out of doogie. Maybe 75 25 split.

 

[Flyby1206]

Yep, sounds pretty serious. UCC supports merger:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amr-creditors-prefer-stock-merger-005914770.html

 

[HalinTexas]

"Announced" mergers always go through:

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=87893&page=1#.UMmXQY6cQsk

 

[dollacrackho]

Justice department won't block this one.

 

[B-atch]

This is AAs new 777-300ER. Note the livery is yet to be determined. This merger is farther down the road than what is being said.

...And why the white??

 

[OHGOON]

Yep, sounds pretty serious. UCC supports merger:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amr-creditors-prefer-stock-merger-005914770.html

from your linked article:

STICKY ISSUE
The talks are now narrowly focused on how to integrate labor unions, indicating the negotiations are far along, the people familiar with the matter said. Detailed valuation discussions - how much of the combined carrier each side should own - are expected to come after the parties iron out labor integration issues, they said.

May be more difficult than an article about finances wants to admit...