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[Indy319FA]

Indy,

The difference between Gojet and the rest of those airlines you listed is that Gojet was created by a company that already owned a regional airline in order to bust up contract negotiations. I am not saying mainline will look at them any different, but there is a big difference between the others listed and Gojet. Do you think there would be a difference if Delta created Delta 2 (with seperate list) and another airline like jetBlue starting?

Mainline carriers tried that in the 80s, it was called a B scale. Regional airlines were created because mainline failed to get a B scale and to bust up mainline contracts. If you don't like what happened at Gojet, and Goget guys are scabs, etc and nobody should work there, then all regional pilots are scabs and you shouldn't work at any regional because they were created to take flying from mainline pilots that mainline could not negotiate B scales for. Mainline pilots understand this which is why you don't see them getting into these silly battles over which regional carrier is taking flying from the other regional carrier. Its all outsourced flying that should be at mainline.

The creation of Gojet as a regional is just like any other. The only difference here is they were created because of contract issues at a regional, not a mainline carrier. I can understand why some at Trans States have personal issues with some of the guys that sold out to go to Gojet. But most of the people there never worked for TSA and many are furloughed from other carriers.

Before you start slinging mud, you better check the history of your own company first and understand where the flying came from.

 

[Indy319FA]

Your memory is faulty! SkyWest was never pay for training...

Sorry. As I remembered the only non PFT airlines were Mesaba and Trans States.

 

[xjhawk]

and during that time, Mesaba could post a higher qualification and experience requirement for its pilots. But Mesaba is gone-Thanks Delta-years of good service, safety and for some, a place to stay an entire career. I am not one, nor have i ever wanted to stay a career at XJ. I am just stating the facts.

 

[Indy319FA]

and during that time, Mesaba could post a higher qualification and experience requirement for its pilots. But Mesaba is gone-Thanks Delta-years of good service, safety and for some, a place to stay an entire career. I am not one, nor have i ever wanted to stay a career at XJ. I am just stating the facts.

I still remember the uproar over the 6 UND guys hired in '97 with 300 hours and a Northwest seniorty number......that was fun...did any of those guys survive IOE?

 

[gojo]

Mainline carriers tried that in the 80s, it was called a B scale. Regional airlines were created because mainline failed to get a B scale and to bust up mainline contracts. If you don't like what happened at Gojet, and Goget guys are scabs, etc and nobody should work there, then all regional pilots are scabs and you shouldn't work at any regional because they were created to take flying from mainline pilots that mainline could not negotiate B scales for. Mainline pilots understand this which is why you don't see them getting into these silly battles over which regional carrier is taking flying from the other regional carrier. Its all outsourced flying that should be at mainline.

The creation of Gojet as a regional is just like any other. The only difference here is they were created because of contract issues at a regional, not a mainline carrier. I can understand why some at Trans States have personal issues with some of the guys that sold out to go to Gojet. But most of the people there never worked for TSA and many are furloughed from other carriers.

Before you start slinging mud, you better check the history of your own company first and understand where the flying came from.

How is this even the same. If I'm not mistaken, mainline had the oppertunity to fly smaller jets and declined. They just didn't think there would be that many of them. Go jets was created for other reasons.

 

[Indy319FA]

How is this even the same. If I'm not mistaken, mainline had the oppertunity to fly smaller jets and declined. They just didn't think there would be that many of them. Go jets was created for other reasons.

Gojet was created to get around the TSA ALPA contract. Regionals were created to get around the mainline contracts. No difference. They didn't decline to fly them, mainline refused the B scale and refused to fly the aircraft for substandard wages.

 

[AntiJedi]

Regionals were created to get around the mainline contracts.

Um, no. Back when the regionals were "created", they were nothing more than codeshare feeds from pre-existing carriers. Nothing more, nothing less. There were no scope issues.

 

[Indy319FA]

Um, no. Back when the regionals were "created", they were nothing more than codeshare feeds from pre-existing carriers. Nothing more, nothing less. There were no scope issues.

Never mentioned scope. Flying was farmed out because mainlines failed to get the B scale they were after in the mid 80s.

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Sorry. As I remembered the only non PFT airlines were Mesaba and Trans States.

Horizon and Great Lakes

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

I still remember the uproar over the 6 UND guys hired in '97 with 300 hours and a Northwest seniorty number......that was fun...did any of those guys survive IOE?

I think 8 Spectrum Students passed IOE, 2 or 3 went to NWA, 1 or 2 to Frontier, 1 Continental, maybe 1 to Hawaiian, and 1 still here.

 

[AntiJedi]

Never mentioned scope. Flying was farmed out because mainlines failed to get the B scale they were after in the mid 80s.

If a code-share was "farming out" then damn, both the Star Alliance and Oneworld must look like ConAgra.

 

[Indy319FA]

If a code-share was "farming out" then damn, both the Star Alliance and Oneworld must look like ConAgra.

There is a big difference between Star Alliance codeshares and what was going on with the regionals after 1984 and the start of the Delta Connection program. The initial agreements were revenue sharing and not codeshares.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Gojet was created to get around the TSA ALPA contract. Regionals were created to get around the mainline contracts. No difference. They didn't decline to fly them, mainline refused the B scale and refused to fly the aircraft for substandard wages.

You're certainly good at making up history as you see it... SkyWest was started 40 years ago to do their own flying, selling their own ticktets/seats on their own routes. They had no affiliation with any major airlines for many years!
Maybe you could do a little research on the subject before spouting out false statements?

 

[AntiJedi]

There is a big difference between Star Alliance codeshares and what was going on with the regionals after 1984 and the start of the Delta Connection program. The initial agreements were revenue sharing and not codeshares.

Ah, see, you're getting more specific now! While you're right about the initial connection program agreements being revenue-sharing in this post, you're wrong about what happened prior, because your previous posts are very presumptive, and well, non-sensical. Created? Please. As if airlines like PSA, AirCal, and Hughes Airwest (yes, these were all regional airlines) were created to undermine the pilot contracts of Pan Am, TWA, and American.

Anyhow, to get back on track here, back in the late 70's, and early 80's, there WAS no DLX, no AE, and no UAX. It was the big guys code-sharing routes with the regionals or today (those that were around back then, anyhow,) to get people to places the big guys didn't want to go, or couldn't do so safely or profitably. Keyword: code-sharing here, because at the time, the regionals at the time sold their own tickets, and those code-shares made it easier for passengers than having to buy 2-3 seperate tickets, and the regionals kept their own branding, service, and culture.

 

[Indy319FA]

Ah, see, you're getting more specific now! While you're right about the initial connection program agreements being revenue-sharing in this post, you're wrong about what happened prior, because your previous posts are very presumptive, and well, non-sensical. Created? Please. As if airlines like PSA, AirCal, and Hughes Airwest (yes, these were all regional airlines) were created to undermine the pilot contracts of Pan Am, TWA, and American.

Anyhow, to get back on track here, back in the late 70's, and early 80's, there WAS no DLX, no AE, and no UAX. It was the big guys code-sharing routes with the regionals or today (those that were around back then, anyhow,) to get people to places the big guys didn't want to go, or couldn't do so safely or profitably. Keyword: code-sharing here, because at the time, the regionals at the time sold their own tickets, and those code-shares made it easier for passengers than having to buy 2-3 seperate tickets, and the regionals kept their own branding, service, and culture.

What are we going back to the airline stone age here? I referenced the mid 80s and the mainline pilots refusal of B scales. That is when the serious farming out of mainline flying began. Many regionals have histories (many started out as part 135 outfits) as independent companies until the mid 80s. That is when regional airlines lost all independence when they sold it out to mainline to get the extra flying. Regional pilots and management were jumping at the chance to get the extra flying even though they lost any independence from their mainline partner. Routes, flight numbers, customer service manuals, customer service programs, and customer service training were all dictated to the regionals by mainline. That is not a codeshare. It is a takeover. Now the takeover is almost complete as many regionals no longer have their own ticket stock, have no control over the seats on their own aircraft, and many do not even have their own customer service anymore but just provide crews and aircraft, and some don't even own their own aircraft.

As to the national carriers like Hughes Airwest, that is a completely differenct topic. Many of these nationals were merged into larger nationals and bought out by larger "mainline" carriers to provide domestic feed to international flights after deregulation. Hughest Airwest, for instance, was folded into Republic in 1980 which merged with NWA to provide domestic feed for Northwest Orient's international flights. That is completely different from the discussion of smaller regionals like Comair, Skywest, and Mesaba.