Latest PNCL email

[1.3XVso]

Hmmm....ten years ago I used to hear the Air Whiskey, Mesaba, Comair, and ACA guys say the same thing about Expressjet, Skywest, Mesa, Chautauqua, and Pinnacle......

Off topic i jumpseated one time and next to me was a ASA legacy pilot. It was during the transition of the new uniform and he quoted " Im super excited to get the new black and gold uniform, Now we can look like a delta airlines pilot". I was booted from airlinepilotcentral but i believe there is a thread on "tool of the day" can someone copy and paste it for me? What a lifer.

 

[amcnd]

Hmmm....ten years ago I used to hear the Air Whiskey, Mesaba, Comair, and ACA guys say the same thing about Expressjet, Skywest, Mesa, Chautauqua, and Pinnacle......

Bingo.. I think if you were around this business in the mid 90's you would understand more...

 

[Indy319FA]

There is nothing funnier than watching guys from Expressjet, Skywest, Pinnacle and Republic rip on Gojet for being too cheap and stealing their flying. Where the heck do you think your flying came from? Well it came from Air Whiskey, Mesaba, Comair, and ACA because you underbid them. Where did their flying come from? It came from mainline because the original "regional airlines" were able to do that flying cheaper than mainline.

The regional airlines are all about cost. Service has jack to do with anything unless you have two airlines of equal cost. Because of this regional airlines have a cycle. You start the airline, underbid somebody else for flying, grow dramatically until your costs get so high that someone else underbids you or you try and move your business into another arena.

If running a good airline and customer service were so important, Mesaba, ACA, Comair, and Air Whiskey would be the largest regional airlines in the country. The most famous last words in this industry are "well even though our costs are more we provide great customer service." That is the kiss of death.

I'll make a few predictions for you. Gojets is going to grow a lot, Pinnecabla will be lucky to hang on to the 41 Mesaba 900s unless they make major pay concessions (which I don't see happening), Skywest is about to have a serious reckoning, but will probably survive because they have good management and some cash, same for ASA/Expressjet, Republic will probably be OK because Beford is pretty much of an SOB and will use the Pinnacle situation to scare 50%+1 into signing a new agreement that is cost neutral. We'll see what the future holds for Air Whiskey, Piedmont, and PSA as their costs are increasing relative to everyone else. Also all the Gojet guys that want to will be moving on to mainline just like everybody else when they meed the hiring minumums.

When it comes to the regionals you need to find one where you can upgrade, build your turbine PIC and get the hell out because sooner or later your company will get on the bad side of the cost curve and will be toast.

Mainline doesn't want honest to god regional partners any more. I hesitate to even call them airlines. In the beginning they were, with their own ticketing, ground ops and marketing. Now they are little more than sources of crews and aircraft (in some cases just the crews) that are easily interchanged at the whim of the bean counters at mainline.

The only way this will ever get fixed is to put all the flying back at mainline which isn't going to happen unless the government or mainline pilots force it to happen. So quit worrying about somebody else stealing your flying (because you "stole" it from somebody else), quit worrying about Gojets because they are just doing what your airline did a while back, and worry about building your credentials to get the hell out as fast as you can.

Rant over

 

[Indy319FA]

Off topic i jumpseated one time and next to me was a ASA legacy pilot. It was during the transition of the new uniform and he quoted " Im super excited to get the new black and gold uniform, Now we can look like a delta airlines pilot". I was booted from airlinepilotcentral but i believe there is a thread on "tool of the day" can someone copy and paste it for me? What a lifer.

When I worked as an FA at ACA on the Dojet, they had us wearing the same uniforms as mainline FAs. Delta wanted a "seamless" travel exeperience so the customer wouldn't know they were on a regional flight. The only difference was the wings said ACA instead of Delta. It drove the Delta FAs nuts (rightfully so) that we were in their uniforms.

 

[Indy319FA]

Bingo.. I think if you were around this business in the mid 90's you would understand more...

Exactly. I've been working in the business since the mid 90s in customer service, inflight, flight ops, and the cockpit. You gotta laugh and shake your head when you hear some of these guys on message boards and in the crew room when they talk about Gojet.

 

[amcnd]

Exactly. I've been working in the business since the mid 90s in customer service, inflight, flight ops, and the cockpit. You gotta laugh and shake your head when you hear some of these guys on message boards and in the crew room when they talk about Gojet.

Whats even better is fly with a newhire that flew for PNCL and asking if he rembers "express 1,ACA,midway,chicago express, ect..". And get the blank look back. Or when you tell them how big Wisky was for United with the 146's and 328's?. They should atleast know Express 1 coming from PNCL...

 

[Indy319FA]

Whats even better is fly with a newhire that flew for PNCL and asking if he rembers "express 1,ACA,midway,chicago express, ect..". And get the blank look back. Or when you tell them how big Wisky was for United with the 146's and 328's?. They should atleast know Express 1 coming from PNCL...

What was even funnier was hearing some of the newhire FAs at Republic refer to the Republic certificate as Republic Mainline. When you explained to them that the CHQ people coming over to Republic were going to be senior to them the deer in the headlight look was priceless.

 

[Kaman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_Airlines_(1979-1986)

This where PNCL and Mesaba got their flying from...

 

[bri5150]

This is funny. People don't even remember why they are supposed to dislike Gojets. Hint: it has nothing to do with cost.

 

[centralpilot]

This is funny. People don't even remember why they are supposed to dislike Gojets. Hint: it has nothing to do with cost.

Alter ego

 

[Indy319FA]

This is funny. People don't even remember why they are supposed to dislike Gojets. Hint: it has nothing to do with cost.

I know exactly what happened at Gojet. I worked at Trans States in customer service for a while and know several of the individuals involved in the whole mess. Most of them have gone from Gojet. I can also remember when people were told not to go to Comair, Expressjet, Express I (Pinnacle), ASA, and Skywest because they were all pay for training and they would never get hired at a mainline because they were an embarassment and had "sold out" and paid for their jobs. Fast forward ten years....any of these guys that wanted to were hired by mainline when they had the qualifications. Same thing for anybody that goes to Gojet right now. They'll go somewhere else as soon as they get the time. To the mainline guys all of these regional airlines are the same. They all regard regionals as outsourced jobs stolen from mainline. The particulars dont matter and mainline guys could care less unless you cross a picket line and get on the scab list. Hulas is an jerk and an SOB. So is Ornstein, Bedford, Uncle Phil.....yadda yadda yadda. They're all basically the same. When you go to work for them you better expect the butt reaming. It is what it is. If you don't like it get an accounting degree and get the hell out. If enough decide to do this maybe it will change, but I doubt it because there is a sucker born every minute.

10 years from now when the Gojet guys get a decent contract and their costs go up, I'm sure they'll be griping about somebody else being a scab operation and stealing flying. It all goes round and round.......

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I know exactly what happened at Gojet. I worked at Trans States in customer service for a while and know several of the individuals involved in the whole mess. Most of them have gone from Gojet. I can also remember when people were told not to go to Comair, Expressjet, Express I (Pinnacle), ASA, and Skywest because they were all pay for training and they would never get hired at a mainline because they were an embarassment and had "sold out" and paid for their jobs. Fast forward ten years....any of these guys that wanted to were hired by mainline when they had the qualifications. Same thing for anybody that goes to Gojet right now. They'll go somewhere else as soon as they get the time. To the mainline guys all of these regional airlines are the same. They all regard regionals as outsourced jobs stolen from mainline. The particulars dont matter and mainline guys could care less unless you cross a picket line and get on the scab list. Hulas is an jerk and an SOB. So is Ornstein, Bedford, Uncle Phil.....yadda yadda yadda. They're all basically the same. When you go to work for them you better expect the butt reaming. It is what it is. If you don't like it get an accounting degree and get the hell out. If enough decide to do this maybe it will change, but I doubt it because there is a sucker born every minute.

10 years from now when the Gojet guys get a decent contract and their costs go up, I'm sure they'll be griping about somebody else being a scab operation and stealing flying. It all goes round and round.......

Your memory is faulty! SkyWest was never pay for training...

 

[altimaklr]

Staffing companies versus staffing companies... a complete waste of time!

 

[AntiJedi]

Your memory is faulty! SkyWest was never pay for training...

Unless you count the time early on when they were also a full-service FBO, and gave flying lessons on top of their scheduled and charter flying.

 

[bri5150]

Indy,

The difference between Gojet and the rest of those airlines you listed is that Gojet was created by a company that already owned a regional airline in order to bust up contract negotiations. I am not saying mainline will look at them any different, but there is a big difference between the others listed and Gojet. Do you think there would be a difference if Delta created Delta 2 (with seperate list) and another airline like jetBlue starting?

 

[Indy319FA]

Indy,

The difference between Gojet and the rest of those airlines you listed is that Gojet was created by a company that already owned a regional airline in order to bust up contract negotiations. I am not saying mainline will look at them any different, but there is a big difference between the others listed and Gojet. Do you think there would be a difference if Delta created Delta 2 (with seperate list) and another airline like jetBlue starting?

Mainline carriers tried that in the 80s, it was called a B scale. Regional airlines were created because mainline failed to get a B scale and to bust up mainline contracts. If you don't like what happened at Gojet, and Goget guys are scabs, etc and nobody should work there, then all regional pilots are scabs and you shouldn't work at any regional because they were created to take flying from mainline pilots that mainline could not negotiate B scales for. Mainline pilots understand this which is why you don't see them getting into these silly battles over which regional carrier is taking flying from the other regional carrier. Its all outsourced flying that should be at mainline.

The creation of Gojet as a regional is just like any other. The only difference here is they were created because of contract issues at a regional, not a mainline carrier. I can understand why some at Trans States have personal issues with some of the guys that sold out to go to Gojet. But most of the people there never worked for TSA and many are furloughed from other carriers.

Before you start slinging mud, you better check the history of your own company first and understand where the flying came from.

 

[Indy319FA]

Your memory is faulty! SkyWest was never pay for training...

Sorry. As I remembered the only non PFT airlines were Mesaba and Trans States.

 

[xjhawk]

and during that time, Mesaba could post a higher qualification and experience requirement for its pilots. But Mesaba is gone-Thanks Delta-years of good service, safety and for some, a place to stay an entire career. I am not one, nor have i ever wanted to stay a career at XJ. I am just stating the facts.

 

[Indy319FA]

and during that time, Mesaba could post a higher qualification and experience requirement for its pilots. But Mesaba is gone-Thanks Delta-years of good service, safety and for some, a place to stay an entire career. I am not one, nor have i ever wanted to stay a career at XJ. I am just stating the facts.

I still remember the uproar over the 6 UND guys hired in '97 with 300 hours and a Northwest seniorty number......that was fun...did any of those guys survive IOE?

 

[gojo]

Mainline carriers tried that in the 80s, it was called a B scale. Regional airlines were created because mainline failed to get a B scale and to bust up mainline contracts. If you don't like what happened at Gojet, and Goget guys are scabs, etc and nobody should work there, then all regional pilots are scabs and you shouldn't work at any regional because they were created to take flying from mainline pilots that mainline could not negotiate B scales for. Mainline pilots understand this which is why you don't see them getting into these silly battles over which regional carrier is taking flying from the other regional carrier. Its all outsourced flying that should be at mainline.

The creation of Gojet as a regional is just like any other. The only difference here is they were created because of contract issues at a regional, not a mainline carrier. I can understand why some at Trans States have personal issues with some of the guys that sold out to go to Gojet. But most of the people there never worked for TSA and many are furloughed from other carriers.

Before you start slinging mud, you better check the history of your own company first and understand where the flying came from.

How is this even the same. If I'm not mistaken, mainline had the oppertunity to fly smaller jets and declined. They just didn't think there would be that many of them. Go jets was created for other reasons.