Latest PNCL email

[bri5150]

When its all said and done, I think this place is going to look a lot like pre merger mesaba but with lower pay/benefits and no saabs. I think any new 76 seaters will be offered to other carriers with large 50 seat fleets for Delta to reduce them. I think these were a series of brilliant moves by Delta. Completely heartless and totally brutal. I believe the plan is already laid out and there is almost nothing we can do to change it at this point. We need to hold on to whatever we can and pucker up because the pain train is on the way.

I agree that this is all planned out. I think we will have all 900's in the end, but more than what Mesaba brought to the merger. They will 2 or 3 for 1 swap for us. That being said, attrition is so high now (imagine after the pay cut) that they may need to furlough, but if you ride it out, things may turn around quick. About 4% of the pilot group has quit in the past 3 weeks and that is without the legacies hiring. The end of the world needs to be shown to the bankruptcy judge and labor unions until management gets what they want. Once they get that, things can turn around quick. I went from furloughed to captain in 6 months after last bankruptcy. Granted it was a bit different, but I see a lot of similarities as well. Mainly attrition.

 

[DoinTime]

I know about 2009.I want to see the one you said two years after the amendable date.You must be one of the UNION cronies. Grow some first.

Look at the date on the linked letter dingbat.

 

[Flyer1015]

Look at the date on the linked letter dingbat.

Namecalling isn't what I'd expect from DoinTime. Usually he's composed.

1.3XVso has a point. 2 years after the amendable date is what he's asking for, and that would have been May 2007. There was no release request then. It seems the first was Jan 2008, almost 3 years later.

 

[1.3XVso]

What dointime doesn't know is that the opportunity was presented to be release and his train buddy's from the UPPER MEC never took it. When they did request it was already to late. And this was told by other MEC from a different ALPA carrier who witness this. Dointime is still enjoying his filet minion on your dues and national meetings at disney with his family.

 

[Ridgeback]

Most of them are full of their "don't worry guys, we've been through this before" attitude, and have no idea what they are now dealing with Delta/9E and the lengths they will go to in order to screw over their regional lift.

And what makes them DELTA/9E. Is it Richard Anderson at Delta? Nope he's really NWA.

Oh I know, John Spanjers at 9E, oh wait he was Mesaba.

It must be the DO. Joe, Dang he was Mesaba too

Wait, Wait I know, The union leadership at 9E! Opps thats Tom Whycor he's Mesaba too.

So please explain to the rest us how you have come up with we are now Dealing with the evil Delta and Pinnacle. Sounds like a rerun of Northwest and Mesaba

 

[Flyer1015]

Nice to see zero unity among the three merged airlines.

 

[profit]

I know about 2009.I want to see the one you said two years after the amendable date.You must be one of the UNION cronies. Grow some first.

You may want to check the definition of CRONYISM.

"I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

[altimaklr]

And what makes them DELTA/9E. Is it Richard Anderson at Delta? Nope he's really NWA.

Oh I know, John Spanjers at 9E, oh wait he was Mesaba.

It must be the DO. Joe, Dang he was Mesaba too

Wait, Wait I know, The union leadership at 9E! Opps thats Tom Whycor he's Mesaba too.

So please explain to the rest us how you have come up with we are now Dealing with the evil Delta and Pinnacle. Sounds like a rerun of Northwest and Mesaba

Spanjers is a yes-man and Richard Anderson doesn't care or deal with the minutiae of DL Conx. The president of DL Conx on the otherhand, is a 16-year Delta veteran who was previously president of Comair after the strike.

 

[e=mc2]

so it is offical 9E is the tallest midgit in the room.

 

[mesaba13]

So how is it that Compass will be cheaper going forward? Almost all of their pilots will flow to Delta in fairly short order wich causes many training events and lack of pilots. The 175 is not as effecient as the 900 either so that operation has higher fuel costs which impacts Delta. They could give them 900s but the training costs and lack of pilots would be a probelm.

So is this what 9E is going to go to bankrupcy court with? "Delta verbally told us in a double secret meeting that 9E costs are higher than gojets". Until a future contract is awarded no one can speculate what Delta will do.
But right now the company is asking us o work for less of a Contract than when we were going down to 49 Saabs and that does not add up.

 

[Kaman]

The words "legacy" and "Pinnacle" together just made me throw up in my mouth a little bit...

 

[CRJ puppy]

So how is it that Compass will be cheaper going forward? Almost all of their pilots will flow to Delta in fairly short order wich causes many training events and lack of pilots. The 175 is not as effecient as the 900 either so that operation has higher fuel costs which impacts Delta. They could give them 900s but the training costs and lack of pilots would be a probelm.

The cost savings, which is HUGE is that no FO is higher than 3rd yr pay, Capts are no higher than 5 yr pay, virtually no one has more than 2 wks vacation and the median age of the pilot group is correspondingly low, so sick time use is low.
Additionally pilots seem to forget that they are not the ONLY cost. You have FAs that have relatively low industry pay rates (and again no one there at hight than about 6 yr pay scale) and the same for their mechanics.
It really is quite that simple.

 

[1.3XVso]

The words "legacy" and "Pinnacle" together just made me throw up in my mouth a little bit...

Lol I'm quoting a lifer who posted that n the air link board.

 

[Flyer1015]

Somebody explain this.....................



Of all the cost cutting going on at Pinnacle, tons of low-mid-high level mangement already let go............



..............how does DW still have a job?!

 

[altimaklr]

The cost savings, which is HUGE is that no FO is higher than 3rd yr pay, Capts are no higher than 5 yr pay, virtually no one has more than 2 wks vacation and the median age of the pilot group is correspondingly low, so sick time use is low.
Additionally pilots seem to forget that they are not the ONLY cost. You have FAs that have relatively low industry pay rates (and again no one there at hight than about 6 yr pay scale) and the same for their mechanics.
It really is quite that simple.

100% correct, and same with GoJet. This is the reason 9E will never have lower costs than competitors, especially on the 900 where FO's are almost all over 6 years seniority and many of the CA's never plan to leave.

 

[xjhawk]

There are a number of things here I wanted to quote so I will just rant on...

What does the number 450 mean to a Pinnacle pilot? It is the seniority number of the most junior FO at Pinnacle after we lose all but 41 former Mesaba CRJ 900's. If you think that fact is lost by all former XJ pilots you are mistaken. Can we do anything about it? No, we of XJ that are not in group 1 or 2 of the Block decision will have our fate with the rest of the group who are not in the top. Thanks ALPA. The one decision that those idiot former executives at Pinnacle wanted and did not get would have been the only good one (to keep us separate). But here we are. But the good thing with our new management is that the training will be better (don't even try to argue this one), oh and another thing is there is a willingness of the new management to do whatever Delta wants so just maybe there will be a flicker of a light at the end of this tunnel.

What will that flicker be? Well with the pay scale and how many long in the tooth pilots Pinnacle has now it will be hard to compete. This is straight from Tom W a couple days ago. I asked if the company wanted to make our captain pay scale capped at 15 years and he said there is no way the union would allow that. He said, "how can they expect a pilot who has made a career at the airline be cut back to the wages he made when he was 30?" So I guess Tom thinks any cuts made to our contract will be on the backs of the junior people once again. He will take the one greatest cut off the table that could make us competitive against other regionals that are more junior in their pay scales. Hey ALPA, when the XJ guys that were screwed (01-04 hires)(not to mention some other 9E groups), it was said that some would have to get screwed for the greater good. Mark N said it a little more eloquently but you get the point. Why not cut the top of the pay scale off now in order to preserve our competitiveness for the greater good? It will not happen-Typical ALPA/Union crap serving the top pilots.

What will happen during this bankruptcy? The Delta TA will pass and Delta will have to shed a couple hundred 50 seaters by 2015. Delta will use the ATL 900's as bait to shed some non leased or owned 50 seaters, they will do the same with the Delta TA allowed additional 70 76seaters. Because of Comair being owned by Delta, there is a chance they might use some of theres as well. Pinnacle is in a unique situation in that its bankruptcy is controlled by Delta and they can tell 9E management that they should cut costs and shed the 200's as they are unprofitable and if they are cheap enough, they might get more 900s. If I am not mistaken, Delta already forced Pinnacle to resign unprofitable airline service agreements in exchange for DIP financing. SO unless we are cheap-no more airplanes as they will be bait for Delta fulfilling their pilots TA. Pinnacle could be screwed even more if Delta makes Pinnacle buy Comair and merge them with 9E pilots. It will be a screw job again for another batch of junior pinnacle pilots as the only regional out there that is more senior to former mesaba is Comair (maybe Horizon).

450
450
Please-everyone worth going to start hiring

 

[SEVEN]

Look at the date on the linked letter dingbat.

I haven't heard the term "dingbat" since 1985? How old are you?

 

[amcnd]

xjhawk has it pretty spot on.. Delta has 5 airlines flying the 50 seater for them. My guess is that will go down to 3-4 airlines. Do the math, they will spit the 125 pretty even. So 30-60 airplanes each.. Just based on the ASA contract that 80% DCI out of ATL has to be them.. And SkyWest's "min-block hours" clause.. CHQ contract is up in 2016.. Comair??? 9E in CH11... The hammer will drop... Delta will want to keep a lowball in there. They need to keep that "rate rest" game going.. In any case! i see 3 airlines flying whats left.. My guess based on the contracts, is ASA will keep the most. ASA maybe 60. SkyWest 30, 9E 35. Will see how close i am.. ( this is all just my guess ) Now to the "new" 900's... Will they have to trade out ASA/SKW some for there contract so maybe 15-20 to each. The real question is who can get the loans? Will Delta. Or is it up to the "regional"..if Delta does. You can bet your bottom dollar GoJet will get some 900's . Everything points to these 70 new ones being CRJ900's. So Compass/Republic may be out of luck.. Then will see if Delta gives any to 9E/Comair... Could be a good way to get someone to buy Comair... 50 aircraft bonus to buy them...??

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Skywest, Inc has a lot of cash

 

[AntiJedi]

The real question is who can get the loans? Will Delta. Or is it up to the "regional"..if Delta does.

Skywest, Inc has a lot of cash

SKYW, Inc., still has that multi-billion dollar loan at the ready, as well. I'm sure DL would love to a) stop paying lease fees on currently owned aircraft, and b) have someone else pay for the new planes.