Latest DL rumors and upgrades

[pave driver]

Yaaaay!!! Delta Maddog upgrades after 15 years!!! Really, is that something to gloat about?

 

[Ty Webb]

The next bid will have 2007 hires in the M88A and 717A.

Now that SWA guys are bashing DL guys about legs/day, my life is complete.

Thanks for spotlighting the delicious irony. :laugh:

 

[General Lee]

Yaaaay!!! Delta Maddog upgrades after 15 years!!! Really, is that something to gloat about?

Where are AA Md80 upgrades at now? 20 years? The only reason the East side of US is faster is because the East side has kept the Westies from bidding out of PHX. Why are you trying to hide the truth?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[dicko]

Where are AA Md80 upgrades at now? 20 years? The only reason the East side of US is faster is because the East side has kept the Westies from bidding out of PHX. Why are you trying to hide the truth?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Your top 717 rate is only 3% higher than AirTrans. On a nearly five year old contract. Did the pay rates come with the jet ?

Kudos General. Kudos.

 

[pave driver]

Where are AA Md80 upgrades at now? 20 years? The only reason the East side of US is faster is because the East side has kept the Westies from bidding out of PHX. Why are you trying to hide the truth?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Yes, this is certainly and undeniably the case. It is a sad case in history hopefully will never occur again. However, I have no faith that greedy pilots won't try and repeat history. I hope I am wrong and new protections will be in place for maybe a merger between Virgin America and Spirit for a hypothetical example. I agree with you on the case in point.

The upgrades will soon be down to approximately 6 years for all of the big 3. Hopefully history won't be repeated but I'm not holding my breath. The tides have turned in the pilots' favor. We will enjoy a good ride at the big 3 for the foreseeable future.

 

[General Lee]

Your top 717 rate is only 3% higher than AirTrans. On a nearly five year old contract. Did the pay rates come with the jet ?

Kudos General. Kudos.

Jan 1st they go to $195 an hour for 12th year 717 Capt (top scale). That is the smallest mainline plane. Profit sharing will be at least double this year compared to last (maybe more due to lower oil now), so that's an additional 2 months pay at a minimum. Add that to the current 717 rates, and you get a substantially higher pay rate. If you make $200K this year at DL, that's an extra $32K at 16%. If oil goes lower, next year's profit could be near $6 Billion.

That's not bad...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Yes, this is certainly and undeniably the case. It is a sad case in history hopefully will never occur again. However, I have no faith that greedy pilots won't try and repeat history. I hope I am wrong and new protections will be in place for maybe a merger between Virgin America and Spirit for a hypothetical example. I agree with you on the case in point.

The upgrades will soon be down to approximately 6 years for all of the big 3. Hopefully history won't be repeated but I'm not holding my breath. The tides have turned in the pilots' favor. We will enjoy a good ride at the big 3 for the foreseeable future.

I agree. One more thing, make Parker give you some profit sharing. Employees deserve to share in the airline's success during good times, especially since employees, not management usually, suffer more during bad times.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

Jan 1st they go to $195 an hour for 12th year 717 Capt (top scale). That is the smallest mainline plane. Profit sharing will be at least double this year compared to last (maybe more due to lower oil now), so that's an additional 2 months pay at a minimum. Add that to the current 717 rates, and you get a substantially higher pay rate. If you make $200K this year at DL, that's an extra $32K at 16%. If oil goes lower, next year's profit could be near $6 Billion.

That's not bad...


Bye Bye---General Lee

Dumguy, there's a reason oil is dropping almost as fast as your wife's panties when you leave on a Nigeria 4-day. Plenty of senior 717 FOs I've spoken with are tired of the 4 and 5 leg days with starts at 0900 finishing at 2200. Yuckola. They bid this because they can't hold weekends off on any other equipment. Like junior FO line holder on the west coast being a 2001 hire (isn't that 13-years?) What's a 13-year pilot at SW on the westcoast get you? Something about your "story" doesn't jive.

 

[General Lee]

Dumguy, there's a reason oil is dropping almost as fast as your wife's panties when you leave on a Nigeria 4-day. Plenty of senior 717 FOs I've spoken with are tired of the 4 and 5 leg days with starts at 0900 finishing at 2200. Yuckola. They bid this because they can't hold weekends off on any other equipment. Like junior FO line holder on the west coast being a 2001 hire (isn't that 13-years?) What's a 13-year pilot at SW on the westcoast get you? Something about your "story" doesn't jive.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Most of the 717 trips do not have consecutive 4 or 5 leg days. Nope. Most of the trips in the NOV bid packet have 1-3 the first day of a 4 day trip, a busy day on day 2, a 30 hour layover, and then maybe 1-3 legs the last day. All 4 days will be worth 21 hours minimum in Nov too, and if you actually looked at the trips, you'd see lots of credit time, meaning that he/she is paid 21 hours to work 15 or 16. That's actually great.


And looking at Sep's LAX 7ER FO awards, looks like a 2007 or 2008 hire was given a line (about 10,200 seniority), and an LAX 73N FO (at about 10,500) was also given a line. In August two out of the bottom three FOs got lines, including the third from the bottom getting a 12 day Asia trip. In SEA, the bottom 5 76ER FOs got lines (bottom guy was about 10,400), and in SEP a guy at about 10,200 got a line. That's a 2007 hire.

On the latest entitlement bid, a guy hired directly onto the 75/76 (ER) in March of this year was awarded LAX 7ER. That base has always been senior, but things are changing for the better. And that guy will fly a plane nonstop to Hawaii (Honolulu, Lihue, Kahalui, and Kona) before you will! Oh yeah, your Hawaii expansion is......on hold...... Whatever!

And I love your "story" about talking to "senior" 717 FOs. The senior ones can easily bid other planes, but some new hires are getting senior but cannot bid off due to the 1 year seat hold for new hires. With 85 new hires a month coming on line (it may go to 100 per month), a senior FO could bid MANY plane types and find weekends off, primarily because new hires are going on to many fleets, including the 7ER. Also, during the slower months, line holders can swap trips (with weekends or partial weekends off), or just drop trips via the pilot swap board. See, you and your "senior 717 FO" story doesn't "jive." You are a waste of time, but I actually enjoy correcting you.


Again Jonny, you're WRONG. Bye now! Wut wut? You're an idiot.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

So the way I read the usual responses from the FI cesspool...

Every other airline has awesome schedules for the most junior pilots on property in junior equipment....weekends off...only 1 or two legs a day, all holidays off.....

Yeah right....

 

[jonjuan]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Most of the 717 trips do not have consecutive 4 or 5 leg days. Nope. Most of the trips in the NOV bid packet have 1-3 the first day of a 4 day trip, a busy day on day 2, a 30 hour layover, and then maybe 1-3 legs the last day. All 4 days will be worth 21 hours minimum in Nov too, and if you actually looked at the trips, you'd see lots of credit time, meaning that he/she is paid 21 hours to work 15 or 16. That's actually great.


And looking at Sep's LAX 7ER FO awards, looks like a 2007 or 2008 hire was given a line (about 10,200 seniority), and an LAX 73N FO (at about 10,500) was also given a line. In August two out of the bottom three FOs got lines, including the third from the bottom getting a 12 day Asia trip. In SEA, the bottom 5 76ER FOs got lines (bottom guy was about 10,400), and in SEP a guy at about 10,200 got a line. That's a 2007 hire.

On the latest entitlement bid, a guy hired directly onto the 75/76 (ER) in March of this year was awarded LAX 7ER. That base has always been senior, but things are changing for the better. And that guy will fly a plane nonstop to Hawaii (Honolulu, Lihue, Kahalui, and Kona) before you will! Oh yeah, your Hawaii expansion is......on hold...... Whatever!

And I love your "story" about talking to "senior" 717 FOs. The senior ones can easily bid other planes, but some new hires are getting senior but cannot bid off due to the 1 year seat hold for new hires. With 85 new hires a month coming on line (it may go to 100 per month), a senior FO could bid MANY plane types and find weekends off, primarily because new hires are going on to many fleets, including the 7ER. Also, during the slower months, line holders can swap trips (with weekends or partial weekends off), or just drop trips via the pilot swap board. See, you and your "senior 717 FO" story doesn't "jive." You are a waste of time, but I actually enjoy correcting you.


Again Jonny, you're WRONG. Bye now! Wut wut? You're an idiot.



Bye Bye---General Lee

7 YEARS to hold the bottom line? Lmfao. I'm sure the line's a real peach. There's a reason the 7er is going junior-cuz it sux, otherwise it would go senior. Get it, toolbag? Senior 717 Fos don't bid bigger planes because they will be JUNIOR and will get garbage. Get it!? Doubtful.

 

[dodgerk]

I am a new Delta poolie. Very grateful and humbled to be joining Delta. I believe I know a fair amount about the company, planes lines and bases etc but I still don't understand some of the terms for the equipment in bases. Can somebody please clarify what planes are described as the following?

- 7ER
- 73N
- 76ER
- 75/76
- ER

I know what seems to makes sense when looking at these abbreviations but I still am a bit lost. Do certain bases only have certain types of 757 , 767 and 737s? Are some of these planes specifically international? Thank you!

 

[General Lee]

'Upgrading' to the DC-9 with horrible schedules? No wonder it's going so junior. Nobody wants those 4 days that pay 20. Multiple 3 hour hub sits to enjoy as well. At least you can perfect the double breast blazer walk. Don't forget your hat!

I just finished a three day with 1-1-2. Paid 19.5. Hopefully Delta will get some rigs next time. If I were at Delta, I would pass on the crappy upgrade as well. The word is out.

Red,

Your example above puzzled me. First, does your airline have a lot of 1-1-2 leg trips, and was a 19.5 paid trip for you that great?

You said your trip paid 19.5, which is another misnomer. That is 19.5 TFP (Trips For Pay). You didn't convert that back to block credit like everyone else in the industry uses.

1 block credit hour (what normal airlines use) = 1.1607 TFP.

So, 19.5 TFP divided by 1.1607 means that you actually got paid, in real block, 16.8. Hardly a productive trip for a 3-day. That's barely more than a DL 3 day trip next month, when the min goes to 15:45 for a 3 day, on a bigger plane too in some cases that pay more per hour. Heck, most Europe 3 day trips are worth 17-20 hours from ATL and include a 24 hour layover and only 2 legs total!

And I asked some friends there about the amount of 1-1-2 trips at the Corndog, and they said very few. Hmmmmm. You made it sound almost "normal." Nope, doesn't look like it Red. Go back to your 3 day, 15 leg AMA and OMA layovers....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SpauldingSmails]

I am a new Delta poolie. Very grateful and humbled to be joining Delta. I believe I know a fair amount about the company, planes lines and bases etc but I still don't understand some of the terms for the equipment in bases. Can somebody please clarify what planes are described as the following?

- 7ER
- 73N
- 76ER
- 75/76
- ER

I know what seems to makes sense when looking at these abbreviations but I still am a bit lost. Do certain bases only have certain types of 757 , 767 and 737s? Are some of these planes specifically international? Thank you!

Ok, here goes.

-73N = 737, one category encompasses the 700, 800, and 900ER. We fly all three.
-7ER = All 757s and 767s, except the 767-400. The 7ER category flies all variants, domestically and internationally. 75/76, ER, 76ER are all slang for this category. 765 represents the 767-400.

 

[General Lee]

I am a new Delta poolie. Very grateful and humbled to be joining Delta. I believe I know a fair amount about the company, planes lines and bases etc but I still don't understand some of the terms for the equipment in bases. Can somebody please clarify what planes are described as the following?

- 7ER
- 73N
- 76ER
- 75/76
- ER

I know what seems to makes sense when looking at these abbreviations but I still am a bit lost. Do certain bases only have certain types of 757 , 767 and 737s? Are some of these planes specifically international? Thank you!

7ER is the 757/767 category. There used to be a domestic only category for the 757/767, and an international category called the "ER", which stands for "extended range." It's an old term that has stuck around.

The 73N is the 737 category. N used to stand for "Next Generation", back when there used to be a couple different types of 737s at DL, including an older 737-300 and 737-200 that weren't "Next Gen"'at the time.

So all of the above is now "7ER" which is the whole 757/767 domestic and international flying combined, and the 73N is the whole 737 category, which flies the 737-700,- 800, -900ER versions.




Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SplitBar]

7 YEARS to hold the bottom line? Lmfao. I'm sure the line's a real peach. There's a reason the 7er is going junior-cuz it sux, otherwise it would go senior. Get it, toolbag? Senior 717 Fos don't bid bigger planes because they will be JUNIOR and will get garbage. Get it!? Doubtful.

7 years longevity would put you fairly senior in the right seat of the 717. I just started year 5 and have been a line holder on the 7ER for 2 years. I'd rather be junior on the 7ER than senior on the 717. To each their own but like others have said, it's nice to have choices. If you are happy and content with what you have then why is there so much need for you guys to try to prove it to each other.

 

[dodgerk]

Thank you GL and SS. That is about what I figured although I didn't realize the 767-400 was a different category.

 

[General Lee]

Thank you GL and SS. That is about what I figured although I didn't realize the 767-400 was a different category.

You are correct. The 767-400 is actually under the "765" category. Why you ask? The 767-400 intitially had a domestic only category (it took over for the domestic L1011s) doing a lot of FLA and transcons from ATL. It then started doing Hawaii from LAX, and it became the "765" to differentiate the domestic ATL flying and the LAX "INTL" flying to Hawaii. Now the 765 fleet mainly does Europe and South America from ATL and NYC bases (with turns through MSP and DTW also to LHR and FRA).

I know, I know, sorta crazy..... But that category pays about $18 more per hour than the 7ER, which makes it more senior. It actually pays the same as the A330. There isn't an extra type rating, but a couple extra sims and an IOE.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Red,

Your example above puzzled me. First, does your airline have a lot of 1-1-2 leg trips, and was a 19.5 paid trip for you that great?

You said your trip paid 19.5, which is another misnomer. That is 19.5 TFP (Trips For Pay). You didn't convert that back to block credit like everyone else in the industry uses.

1 block credit hour (what normal airlines use) = 1.1607 TFP.

So, 19.5 TFP divided by 1.1607 means that you actually got paid, in real block, 16.8. Hardly a productive trip for a 3-day. That's barely more than a DL 3 day trip next month, when the min goes to 15:45 for a 3 day, on a bigger plane too in some cases that pay more per hour. Heck, most Europe 3 day trips are worth 17-20 hours from ATL and include a 24 hour layover and only 2 legs total!

And I asked some friends there about the amount of 1-1-2 trips at the Corndog, and they said very few. Hmmmmm. You made it sound almost "normal." Nope, doesn't look like it Red. Go back to your 3 day, 15 leg AMA and OMA layovers....



Bye Bye---General Lee

Your puzzled because you don't know squat about the SW system.

Here's the actual numbers.

Trip actually paid 19.7

Equaled $2405.17 in pay for the three day.

Block you ask? 14.3

Pay per hour (in your world) $168.20/hr.

Which by the way, is equal to your 12yr FO rate on the A330 and 767. Add to the fact that I'm only about half way up the payscale here and that's a slam dunk my friend.

Next time you might want to think before you open your pie hole. Wait, you've never done that. Carry on...

I'll agree that 1-1-2 isn't the normal, but they are out there. Just like the 1-3-1 that I recently flew. You really have no clue.

 

[General Lee]

Your puzzled because you don't know squat about the SW system.

Here's the actual numbers.

Trip actually paid 19.7

Equaled $2405.17 in pay for the three day.

Block you ask? 14.3

Pay per hour (in your world) $168.20/hr.

Which by the way, is equal to your 12yr FO rate on the A330 and 767. Add to the fact that I'm only about half way up the payscale here and that's a slam dunk my friend.

Next time you might want to think before you open your pie hole. Wait, you've never done that. Carry on...

I'll agree that 1-1-2 isn't the normal, but they are out there. Just like the 1-3-1 that I recently flew. You really have no clue.

My last trip to Paris (about 18.5 hours, 3 days total, 2 legs, 24 hour layover) paid $2867 (18.5x155 (plus INTL override) and also $2.60 an hour per diem). You still worked harder, I ate better food, you stayed in a La Quinta in Omaha. I saw the Eifel Tower, you stayed next to a water tower. I took a night cruise along the Seine River. You looked insane, down by the river. Big difference Red, and you still lose.



Bye Bye---General Lee