Latest ASA offer

[Dodge]

One big difference... Mesaba is in ch.11 ASA is not!

True......very true. When/if broke Delta "skips" a few payments like broke Northwest did to Mesaba, bankruptcy would seem to me a very viable option to make sure that those greedy ASA pilots work for less money than the average Delta 757 CA gives in allowance to his 7 year girl.

 

[dal757]

True......very true. When/if broke Delta "skips" a few payments like broke Northwest did to Mesaba, bankruptcy would seem to me a very viable option to make sure that those greedy ASA pilots work for less money than the average Delta 757 CA gives in allowance to his 7 year girl.

Good point Dodge. I do agree with you there!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

True......very true. When/if broke Delta "skips" a few payments like broke Northwest did to Mesaba, bankruptcy would seem to me a very viable option to make sure that those greedy ASA pilots work for less money than the average Delta 757 CA gives in allowance to his 7 year girl.

Except for the SkyWest/Dal deal was already affirmed by the bankruptcy judge.

Them bills is gettin' paid, yo.

 

[flylowman]

Guys and Gals. You have to stick with us. This thread is Flame. Don't sell out. Get a good contract, and work for what you desirve to get paid. I would like to see the a contract signed, ASA grow, be a big happy family, and not have to wory about SKYW transfering assets, but this is the real world. We have to stick it out and take it a day at a time, get us a good contract and raise the bar in this $hity industry we work in. I am sory for any spelling I have been drinking and not a good speller anyway.

 

[atrdriver]

These ARE tough times fellas! I do agree that earlier offers were unacceptable but the latest offers have been better!!

But hey, This is just my opinion...

They are???? ASA made HOW much money last quarter? And was the most profitable regional airline in existance? And that qualifies as tough times in your book?????

 

[Firehoser]

<<They are???? ASA made HOW much money last quarter?>>

Lets put the profit in a little perspective:

If I remember correctly last quarter's profit at ASA was about $45 million.

Fuel expense for the same period: $ 24 million
Crew expense, (Pilots only): $ 61 million
Non contract employees $ 240 million
(Based on 25K a year)
Leases, maintenance, parts etc? $ ??????
Benefits $ ??????
Other costs(training etc) $ ???????

Ok those of you ranting about the excessive profit ASA is making run the numbers yourself and consider:

If no money was coming in; on $45 million profit a quarter, how many days could ASA continue to pay salaries and meet its financial obligations before it would have to start selling off its assets? (Assume a condition where Delta dumps us at the end of our contract with them).

Run the numbers - $45 million sounds like a lot but its a drop in the bucket. It looks even lower when you realize that represents about 5% or so in profit margin.

Its like bringing home $7000 a month in salary but having to pay out $6700 in bills. No sane and responsible adult would let their budget get to that condition but that is exactly the constraints airlines are working under these days. Its amazing they are all hanging on.

??? Did you learn anything sleeping through Economics in high school????

 

[Medeco]

Once again, FUEL IS A PASS THROUGH EXPENSE to DAL.

So, 24 million in your figures is of no worry to ASA or SKYWEST inc.

Apples to Oranges

MESABA is owned by MAIR holdings, which has many ties to NORTHWEST, which made it easy to withhold payments to Mesaba/ divert money and create a bankruptcy at Mesaba.

You guys who say this is as good as it gets, have taken the bait from management. They have sucessfully lowered your expectations and now that they have POSSIBLY come to the table with ZERO concessions, made you believe that this is the best we could hope for.

Stop and think.

Medeco

 

[dal757]

Firehoser: Thanks!

That is EXACTLY what I meant by saying these are tough times. Unfortunately several on here don't quite get it. I'm all for raising salaries. (especially for first year FO's) But we MUST consider what the companies are up against. These are unique times! Why run the airline into the ground. Get a better contract and then in a few years when things are turning much better let's fight for what's deserved. People it's better to have an airline to fly for rather than strike or allow the assets to be sold or transfered.

I truly do wish the best for all the pilots at ASA...

 

[ASACAPT]

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from there firehoser, but just to enlighten you, ASA pilot pay roll is about $85 million a year, so how you come up with pilot cost of $65 million a quarter is a little puzzeling.

 

[ReverseSensing]

These are unique times!

You at least go that much right:

Alaska: Profitable
Horizon: Profitable
Continental: Profitable
UAL: Profitable (!)
Southwest: Profitable
And on and on....

What a concept: charge (at least) what it costs to produce your product, and VOILA! Profitable.

Anybody that falls for doom and gloom arguments for taking concessions or a crappy contract (besides for in bankruptcy) given a) the shenanigans that managements have been pulling across the industry and b) the current yield management picture, is a sucker.

 

[JoeMerchant]

They are???? ASA made HOW much money last quarter? And was the most profitable regional airline in existance? And that qualifies as tough times in your book?????

ASA's net profit margin is about 1/3rd what it was in 1998, it continues to decline, and the profit is entirely dependent on "winning" bids for mainline feed.

 

[JoeMerchant]

What about scope, one seniority list, something to provide security and end whipsaw.... any of those issues addressed?

Fins, per the conference call with the CNC, a single list is not being pursued, and the scope we are asking for wouldn't stop SKYW from transferring assets. Per the CNC, the first 15% of our block hours would be penalty free. After that, SKYW would just have to take the pilots with the aircraft. Not acceptable IMO!

 

[ReportCanoa]

Anybody that falls for doom and gloom arguments for taking concessions or a crappy contract (besides for in bankruptcy) given a) the shenanigans that managements have been pulling across the industry and b) the current yield management picture, is a sucker.

They should have been willing to give me me shilling. But I've done well by sending them to hell!

 

[ReverseSensing]

They should have been willing to give me me shilling. But I've done well by sending them to hell!

Enough of this negotiatin' crap:

"Try as they will, and try as they might, who steals me gold won't live through the night!"

 

[ReportCanoa]

Enough of this negotiatin' crap:

"Try as they will, and try as they might, who steals me gold won't live through the night!"

We're alike, me and you. Evil as heII, all the way through

 

[ReverseSensing]

We're alike, me and you. Evil as heII, all the way through

Diddely diddely dee, a Leprechaun is me!

 

[AMANSWORLD]

Offer last week from ASA:

-Payraise for 50/ATR
-No paycut for 700
-$1.55 perdiem increasing to $1.60
-Skywest training pilot section
-1:2 duty rigs
-401k improvements
-PBS

ALPA said NO
This from a voting member of the MEC

I find this hard to believe. Any proof? By all means show us - otherwise piss off.

 

[atrdriver]

<<They are???? ASA made HOW much money last quarter?>>

Lets put the profit in a little perspective:

If I remember correctly last quarter's profit at ASA was about $45 million.

Fuel expense for the same period: $ 24 million
Crew expense, (Pilots only): $ 61 million
Non contract employees $ 240 million
(Based on 25K a year)
Leases, maintenance, parts etc? $ ??????
Benefits $ ??????
Other costs(training etc) $ ???????

Ok those of you ranting about the excessive profit ASA is making run the numbers yourself and consider:

If no money was coming in; on $45 million profit a quarter, how many days could ASA continue to pay salaries and meet its financial obligations before it would have to start selling off its assets? (Assume a condition where Delta dumps us at the end of our contract with them).

Run the numbers - $45 million sounds like a lot but its a drop in the bucket. It looks even lower when you realize that represents about 5% or so in profit margin.

Its like bringing home $7000 a month in salary but having to pay out $6700 in bills. No sane and responsible adult would let their budget get to that condition but that is exactly the constraints airlines are working under these days. Its amazing they are all hanging on.

??? Did you learn anything sleeping through Economics in high school????

And that is my problem HOW? The only way that ASA is not going to have money coming in is if they refuse to negotiate fairly with the pilots. If they choose not to do that, then they deserve what comes to them. If they choose TO negotiate, then they don't have much to worry about. The pilot group can either be this companies biggest asset, or it's biggest liability. It's the companies decision on which we are.

 

[atrdriver]

Firehoser: Thanks!

That is EXACTLY what I meant by saying these are tough times. Unfortunately several on here don't quite get it. I'm all for raising salaries. (especially for first year FO's) But we MUST consider what the companies are up against. These are unique times! Why run the airline into the ground. Get a better contract and then in a few years when things are turning much better let's fight for what's deserved. People it's better to have an airline to fly for rather than strike or allow the assets to be sold or transfered.

I truly do wish the best for all the pilots at ASA...

Yeah, these are really rough times. Our company has NEVER lost money, and last quarter it was the most profitable in the industry. I don't fly for Mesaba, or Trans States, or CMR. I fly for the most profitable airline in the business. If you think this is a tough time for ASA I would love to hear what you will think good times are.

 

[atrdriver]

ASA's net profit margin is about 1/3rd what it was in 1998, it continues to decline, and the profit is entirely dependent on "winning" bids for mainline feed.

So you'te telling me that in 1998 ASA's profit margin was in excess of 38%? Maybe so, but that was when all we flew was props, George and John were running the company, and the overall industry was in a lot better shape. But if you think that I am going to be happy making LESS than I was 8 years ago you are sadly mistaken.