LAS Picket huge success

[Majik]

at another service center are we majik?

Looking at my logbook and all I see is GSO, SWF, SAT, ICT, MKE, LGB, and of course, MCO. Ahhhh, the life of a VII pilot

 

[NJAowner]

Desired effects??

The main question is what is the desired effect. For about the past year, I have been posting publicly and privately that the vast majority of pilots have been extending themselves to be more "owner friendly" than in the past. I commended that action (organized or not) and thought it would have the effect of having owners more sympathetic to the pilots.

In the past 3 weeks I have had 4 flights with crews that have been horrible from an owner's service point of view. In each of these flights, it actually took extra effort for the crew to have the attitudes that they did. I have spoken with one other owner who also has had these experiences (they started just before Memorial Day). Sticking to the rules is one thing -- but the rules (and I have not ever read them) probably do not have a requirement of pilots flying "with a chip on their shoulders".

The "actual effect" is that the pilots are trying hard to alienate, irritate and pi$$ off the owners. I do not know whther this is your "desired effect".

Also remember the old addage --"Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" - you are mad at NJA not the owners. The equation below does not need an advanced degree to comprehend:

Fewer owners (by sending prospects away or losing current owners) = fewer planes = fewer pilots needed. That is a fact.

 

[GVFlyer]

Thank you! That is the ultimate effect and it's up to management to manage... Why don't you give your NetJets management buddies a call and report your findings. Maybe they could do something before it's too late. This is just the tip of the iceburg. Thanks for the encouragement (and I'm being sincere). You just made my day.

I think they already know... At least Gulfstream management does. The company has distanced itself from NetJets and no longer sells Gulfstream Shares.

GV

 

[Majik]

The main question is what is the desired effect. For about the past year, I have been posting publicly and privately that the vast majority of pilots have been extending themselves to be more "owner friendly" than in the past. I commended that action (organized or not) and thought it would have the effect of having owners more sympathetic to the pilots.

In the past 3 weeks I have had 4 flights with crews that have been horrible from an owner's service point of view. In each of these flights, it actually took extra effort for the crew to have the attitudes that they did. I have spoken with one other owner who also has had these experiences (they started just before Memorial Day). Sticking to the rules is one thing -- but the rules (and I have not ever read them) probably do not have a requirement of pilots flying "with a chip on their shoulders".

The "actual effect" is that the pilots are trying hard to alienate, irritate and pi$$ off the owners. I do not know whther this is your "desired effect".

Also remember the old addage --"Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" - you are mad at NJA not the owners. The equation below does not need an advanced degree to comprehend:

Fewer owners (by sending prospects away or losing current owners) = fewer planes = fewer pilots needed. That is a fact.

I gotta ask, what was Santulli's response when you informed him that pilots seem to have "chips on their shoulders" that weren't there 4 years ago? Did you tell him, "If this doesn't magically correct itself soon, I'm considering taking my business elsewhere?" I'd love to hear his rep-lie .

I don't think pilots are intentionally trying to pi$$ off the owners. A few may think this is the only way, after 4 years of false promises and failed negotiations, to get management's attention. Our union leadership tells us constantly to remain professional, especially to the passengers. Most pilots I have seen are and I try to still be as nice to the owners as I was in the past. I think this is just a battle between management and labor and you just happen to be caught in the middle. I hope management doesn't let the company's image erode any more than they already have. I do know that pilots are being run hard and put away wet like never before. I guess it doesn't take too much imagination to think that all of this wouldn't suck the smile off some of their faces. I think a lot of pilots have started flying to the strict rule of FARs and our FOM. On the bright side - safety is probably at it's highest level. Hope your "NetJets Experience" improves soon. There is a solution but it's not within my control. I'm very interested in your reply.

 

[dsptchrnja]

>>>

I hope management doesn't let the company's image erode any more than they already have.

What a crock of pooh. I'm so tired of you guys trashing this company and blaming it on your paycheck. You aren't evening LISTENING... the experience described by NJAOwner was directed at the way the pilots treated the passenger/owner, not the way the company is "treating" you.

You can't pass that off on the company without also saying, in so many words, that when your pay increases they will see a noticible increase in customer service.

This doesn't surpise me as much as you confirming, without hesitation, that "...NetJets is no longer a premium product" is the "ultimate" desired affect that you are going for. I mean, you are'nt even hiding it anymore!!! Vengence is obviously driving your agenda and I've lost complete respect for you.

When are you going to wake up to the realization that your agenda is giving the NJA crews a bad name? - Not the company. Youre continued efforts to trash this company are backfiring with every attempt. Well... that's not entirely true if your attempt is to give the owners a raw deal until your pay increases. Fact is, they, and everyone else, would probably come along side you if the company were not bargaining in good faith. Fact is, it's BECAUSE they are bargaining in good faith that your agenda is backfiring.

When this contract negotiation is over is this really the way you want to be remembered?

 

[Majik]

What a crock of pooh. I'm so tired of you guys trashing this company and blaming it on your paycheck. You aren't evening LISTENING... the experience described by NJAOwner was directed at the way the pilots treated the passenger/owner, not the way the company is "treating" you.

Like I said, I, and most of the pilots are nice to owners. Some pilots are losing their desire to jump through hoops for the owners. I can't really blame them. Some pilots don't have as much patience as others. 4 years is a long time to wait for Santulli's promises. I do know he could correct this if he felt it were a problem. Obviously he must not think it's that bad, yet. I don't know how far he is willing to take it. He controls the image of his company. Sorry you can't see the connection. Being on the outside is what probably blurs your vision. Being on the inside is what probably blurs mine.

 

[Hogprint]

In the past 3 weeks I have had 4 flights with crews that have been horrible from an owner's service point of view. In each of these flights, it actually took extra effort for the crew to have the attitudes that they did. I have spoken with one other owner who also has had these experiences (they started just before Memorial Day). Sticking to the rules is one thing -- but the rules (and I have not ever read them) probably do not have a requirement of pilots flying "with a chip on their shoulders".

Please elaborate on this? What exactly did this crew do/not do that ruffled your feathers.

The "actual effect" is that the pilots are trying hard to alienate, irritate and pi$$ off the owners. I do not know whther this is your "desired effect".

And you have gleaned this knowledge from the past four flights? I can tell you sir you are way off base. If I down a plane it is for OUR safety, not to pi$$ you off.

Let me reiterate. The RULES are everything. Yes, as an owner and now under 91k you should read them. Maybe the next time you show up at the FBO, instead of having the limo drop you off at the plane, go through the lobby and pick up a FAR/AIM. Then you can brush up on all that pilot stuff before you go off half cocked on this board.

 

[Majik]

You can't pass that off on the company without also saying, in so many words, that when your pay increases they will see a noticible increase in customer service.

I offered a guy $2 to cut my yard with the promise that in a short time, cutting my yard would be the "best yard cutting job in the entire yard cutting industry." Four years later I still pay him $2. I've even become more demanding in the yard cutting tasks I assign him. And you think I should be shocked beyond belief that the quality of my lawn service seems to erode with every year that passes.

 

[Hogprint]

dspchr,

The statement "netjets isn't a premium product" came from a prospective owner. Not one of our guys.

Nobody is trying to trash the company. We are just stating the obvious. If you were looking for a share in a jet and company A has a four year lingering labor dispute and company B doesn't, who ya gonna go with?

This company is stewing its own goose. Just start asking around in the Death Star what is about to happen to training....

 

[On Your Six]

Just remember the old saying "you get what you pay for..." The same is true for pilots. Plenty of well-trained, experienced NJA pilots leaving for greener pastures at JetBlue, SWA, AirTran, UPS, etc.

 

[Majik]

Fact is, they, and everyone else, would probably come along side you if the company were not bargaining in good faith. Fact is, it's BECAUSE they are bargaining in good faith that your agenda is backfiring.

What a load of crap! Let's see, if the pilots would accept any offer from Santulli, you, the owners, and everyone else would come along side us and - do exactly what? NJA Owner said he was on our side for over a year. What exactly did he do for us again? See, I'm having a really hard time with your credibility when you make statements like this. Either you are greatly uninformed, are willing to blindly kiss management's butt and believe anything that comes out of their mouth is gospel, or you have an agenda that you are concealing. I think it's a combination of all three. I think your agenda is trying to keep a job you like but you are caught between Scrooge for a manager and pilots that want something better that was promised by Scrooge. You don't dare criticize Scrooge (because he's the one that gifted you with your dream job) so you direct your frustration on the poorest paid pilots in the industry.

And another thing, this company is definitely NOT BARGAINING IN GOOD FAITH any more than Ted Bundy was just out to date a few girls. This company is trying to wrangle every penny they can from a group of pilots that had the audacity to form a union. Santulli is trying to teach us a lesson and save a ton of money. He seems willing to risk the reputation of his company. He's a gambler and it's a game to him. You seem unhappy that the pilots are willing to call his bluff. If I lose this hand, it will be a lot easier for me to find another mediocre flying job than it will be for Santulli to start another NetJets. I consider that good pot odds since I don't have very much to lose.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Oh this is interesting Pro Pilot Salary Survey

Citation X average pay June 2005 Pro Pilot

Corporate - $130,000 Fractional - $67,000

Hell I only got $64K

Where is my 100% pay raise?

 

[FAcFriend]

I think this may shed light on what a difficult position this pilot group is in-

they want to be home more-
they don't want 14 hour days
they want better crew food
they want help carrying owner luggage
they want more money

and while in negoatiations, BO and committee
don't have to fly
don't have to work 14 hour days
don't have to be away from home as much
don't have to eat crew food
don't have to carry luggage
His wife is happier because he is not on the road as much-

The only thing this guy doesnt have is more money- but that is debatable because we all know it costs any family more money to have one member on the road alot. Netjets wife taught us that.

What incentive does this guy have to settle this contract in a timely manner?

I am not saying he doesnt want to settle it- but if i were in his shoes, I would be more willing to "hold out" than a line guy.

So you see, Casino folks, these pilots are really on their own-

 

[x402]

Sticking to the rules is one thing -- but the rules (and I have not ever read them) probably do not have a requirement of pilots flying "with a chip on their shoulders".

So, now we have to have the "correct attitude" while we fly your rich butt around.
Was your flight delayed?
Was your catering in order?
What was the problem? Some imagined slight or inattention to your needs, Mr Owner?
If the job was not done properly, if there were real issues then there are ways to proceed. If the crew was just not up to their sweet 'ass kissing selves', then they might have been tired or they might have been sick and tired of waiting on 1998 wages.
Did you wonder to find out or have you just assumed they were actively trying to be rude or inattentive. Maybe it was day one and they had been on duty since 0001. Maybe they were the recovery a/c and had been rushing to get your trip ready. Maybe they didn't have time to hold your hand while they did all this so they could provide you a safe flight, because that's the job, provide a SAFE flight, everything else is gravy.
You can't blame the pilots for turning this into the K-Mart of fractional aviation, look elsewhere.

 

[x402]

I think this may shed light on what a difficult position this pilot group is in-

they want to be home more-
they don't want 14 hour days
they want better crew food
they want help carrying owner luggage
they want more money

and while in negoatiations, BO and committee
don't have to fly
don't have to work 14 hour days
don't have to be away from home as much
don't have to eat crew food
don't have to carry luggage
His wife is happier because he is not on the road as much-

The only thing this guy doesnt have is more money- but that is debatable because we all know it costs any family more money to have one member on the road alot. Netjets wife taught us that.

What incentive does this guy have to settle this contract in a timely manner?

I am not saying he doesnt want to settle it- but if i were in his shoes, I would be more willing to "hold out" than a line guy.

So you see, Casino folks, these pilots are really on their own-

You really have no idea what you are talking about, you must not know any of the people you have just slandered. It's a good thing this is anonymous board, I'm sure you wouldn't have the stones to say that to any of the people on the committee. You are a pitiful coward.