Larger aircraft for Eagle?

[GogglesPisano]

Doesn't the APA have a scope clause? All they have to say is no friggin' way. The Eagle MEC should be ashamed. "Please let us fly bigger airplanes! We'll do it for cheap. Please?" Pathetic!!!


I am an RJ Driver and a strong believer in SCOPE!

 

[FightTheFuture]

Unashamed

Doesn't the APA have a scope clause? All they have to say is no friggin' way. The Eagle MEC should be ashamed. "Please let us fly bigger airplanes! We'll do it for cheap. Please?" Pathetic!!!


I am an RJ Driver and a strong believer in SCOPE!

With regard to the scope clause, one opinion is that AMRon threatened to go after AA pensions if the airline went into bankruptcy. APA agreed to "scope relief" and some $660 million in concessions.

Part of those concessions involved giving all future
jet vacancies to AA pilots. There was a 4 party agreement between AE,AA, and both management groups that set rules for all flowthrough and flowback procedures. This year APA decided that contract was not in their best interest anymore.

Now think of this, our fleet count shrunk as we retired turboprops. There are a lot of former prop Captains in the right seat earning Eagle FO wages. The way APA intended it they would never upgrade. And don't forget the rest of us FO's with 4-5 years of seniority and not one hope of upgrade.

All of this is after APA joined in a "Unity" campaign last fall with Eagle Alpa with an intention to create a combined front against AMRon management.

Our MEC spent the better part of this year just trying to get Eagle management and APA to honor our contract. And after an arbitrator ruled for the Eagle pilots in 4 recent grievances the company and APA have stated that they don't need that arbitrators services anymore and will continue to pursue pilot positions at Eagle irrespective of our current contract.

With the past year in perspective I'm glad the Eagle MEC is making the AAer's sweat. I don't think we'll get the new equipment but at least AMRon will use our offer to squeeze even more concessions out of APA. Call it karma for screwing with Eagle.

 

[General Lee]

Yes. We carry a lot more passengers and eventually the RJs will be out grown and 100 seaters will be necessary to compete with Jetblue's low fares---and mainline will expand then. Dalpa will NEVER EVER give up the 100 seaters.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Wacopilot]

Gen,

According to the Cincinnati Enquirer, Comair is beating jetblue... We posted a bigger profit at Comair last qtr than jetblue did. Looks like CMR is the Delta answer to competing with Jetwho?

Interesting stuff....

Waco

 

[canadflyau]

There was a 4 party agreement between AE,AA, and both management groups that set rules for all flowthrough and flowback procedures. This year APA decided that contract was not in their best interest anymore

Please explain.. What was the original flowback deal? and what is currently happening?

I'm glad the Eagle MEC is making the AAer's sweat. I don't think we'll get the new equipment but at least AMRon will use our offer to squeeze even more concessions out of APA. Call it karma for screwing with Eagle.

and you call yourself "FightTheFuture"? That statement is just plain immature..

 

[resistance]

Will someone please wake up the rarely seen "Sky-Marshalls" from the back because this thread has been hijacked again by D-ALPA.

As far as this one-list b-s can I please put my two-cents in...

I look at it as the Mainline carriers don't want me (United, Delta, Northwest...) so screw them! I've tried numberous times during the good years to get into the party but the all don't want to open the door. (I guess I am too civilian for them all??) So I am trying to build a company that will eventually get me higher pay with bigger planes. If that means taking over mainline routes then so be it! I have no issues about it at all. Go talk to your respected management CEO's they are the one's selling your job, your pension, your future down the river to me. I was on the "one-list" band wagon here at Eagle for many years only to get a swift kick in the balls from APA so my direction is 180 degrees. I welcome a sale of the company and vast growth here at the expense of APA pilots.

Remember APA guys you had your chance to unify the group back in 97' but your "defending the profession" got in the way.

Scope is dead....and your pension is next! Sweet Dreams

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

Just because you did not have what it takes to get on with a major airline makes it ok to try to steal mainline jobs from AA? What kind of reasoning is that? It is obvious that you are just bitter about not being "good enough" to move on from Eagle. First, the greedy Eagle pukes show their willingness to fly the 100 seat regional jets for AA and the next thing you know they will be offering to fly the 777 for a third of what the mainline guys earn. What a pathetic attempt to steal from others.
I have beeen furloughed from AA for a year and a half now, and if I never get recalled, at least I can say I fulfilled my dream by flying for a major airline. Thanks to the greedy actions of the Eagle MEC, I may never fly again at AA. If those backstabbers have their way, they will be flying aircraft that clearly should be flown by mainline pilots. I hope you will be able to sleep at night if these actions come to fruition and furloughed AA guys like myself never get recalled. Enjoy your careeer at Eagle as you will never wind up at AA (hopefully).

 

[Beerme]

__________________________________________________[/B][/QUOTE]I look at it as the Mainline carriers don't want me (United, Delta, Northwest...) so screw them! I've tried numberous times during the good years to get into the party but the all don't want to open the door. (I guess I am too civilian for them all??)

If that means taking over mainline routes then so be it! I have no issues about it at all.

Scope is dead....and your pension is next! Sweet Dreams [/B][/QUOTE]
____________________________________________________

Your pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**in' pathetic. I see you now have 5500hrs...what did you have 9-11-01? Probably around 3500hr. I got news for ya buddy...that wasn't competitive prior to that date. It's not that the major carriers didn't want you, there were just too many BETTER QUALIFIED candidates you were competing against. Plain and simple. The majors are like the military, you either make the grade or not. At the time, you couldn't. So now, you want to piss all over everyone else and become a big WHORE! I got news for you...with that kind of attitude, you never had the character to play with the big boys.

Good riddance!

 

[Slave2theGrind]

Enjoy your careeer at Eagle as you will never wind up at AA (hopefully).

Believe me that most, including me, do not want to fly for AA.

If those backstabbers have their way,

Are you refering to the APA and their "Unity Bull Sh!t"

I hope you will be able to sleep at night if these actions come to fruition and furloughed AA guys like myself never get recalled.

How about all the 5+ year Eagle FO's that will never upgrade due to APA and AE management implementing their own flowback agreement

Go cry somewhere else

 

[superatr]

Everyone missed the point of the letter.

The intent was to start a dialogue that will challenge Ealge managment and AMR managment to seek growth opportunities in the only segment of the aviation industry that has growth potential.

Regional Jets in the 70 - 100 seat range is where the growth will be.

Both pilot unions can benefit if AMR managment will take the time to engage both pilot unions and allow aircraft in these seat ranges to be flown unrestricted by which-ever pilot group can do so in the most cost efficient manner.

The purpose of the letter was only to start the dialouge in order to be ready with a plan should managment decide to get into the game and once again become an industry leader and not react after other carriers have gained an advantage.

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

It is pretty obvious what the point of the letter is. Eagle pilots want to steal mainline AA flying. Isn't the intent of the letter pretty clear? Seriously, why don't the Eagle guys go for it all and put it a bid in to fly the 777 for AA at "slave wages". What a lame and pathetic attempt by those at Eagle. I hope you are proud of your MEC.

 

[canadflyau]

I call BS

I see you now have 5500hrs...what did you have 9-11-01? Probably around 3500hr. I got news for ya buddy...that wasn't competitive prior to that date. It's not that the major carriers didn't want you, there were just too many BETTER QUALIFIED candidates y

Not only that.... but would you have even had 1000hrs of PIC at a 121 or 135 carrier by 9/11????


Why won't anyone please explain statements like this...

How about all the 5+ year Eagle FO's that will never upgrade due to APA and AE management implementing their own flowback agreement

screw the mudslinging I want to know how it was amended. What was it before, what is it now, and if so how can it be totally disregarded?

if AMR managment will take the time to engage both pilot unions and allow aircraft in these seat ranges to be flown unrestricted by which-ever pilot group can do so in the most cost efficient manner.

Is that really what you want??? You would be opening a can of worms that would end up taking what professionalism is left at your present job... Pic up aviation weekly... there are thousand of people who reponded to an article saying they would be willing to fly a 767 for the rest of their life for pennies on our dollar.

I just can't belive what I am reading... If 100 seat jets find there way out of mainline I will be considering other career options.

 

[FightTheFuture]

It is pretty obvious what the point of the letter is. Eagle pilots want to steal mainline AA flying. Isn't the intent of the letter pretty clear? Seriously, why don't the Eagle guys go for it all and put it a bid in to fly the 777 for AA at "slave wages". What a lame and pathetic attempt by those at Eagle. I hope you are proud of your MEC.

Steal mainline flying? Nobody seems to care that APA is taking Eagle CA vacancies and keeping their doh date for pay and vacation bidding purposes when they come over despite our contract. APA had another ad campaign last year just before the "Unity Campaign" extolling the virtues of bringing all RJs over to the AA certificate with no hint at where current Eagle pilots would go. I think the theme went something like "AA pilots flying AA Regional Jets...its a win win situation." I don't remember any outcries about stealing our jobs.

Our MEC had to fight just to protect our contract language this year with respect to APA stealing all future AE vacancies. An arbitrator ruled in favor of the Eagle pilot group but guess what?
APA and AE management said oh well we are going to give AA pilots the vacancies anyway.

Yeah we make slave wages and work for a company that follows and implements our contract only when it is practical or economically feasible for them. Our MEC is trying to improve job opportunities for Eagle pilots so I am very proud of them.

First, the greedy Eagle pukes show their willingness to fly the 100 seat regional jets for AA and the next thing you know they will be offering to fly the 777 for a third of what the mainline guys earn. What a pathetic attempt to steal from others.
I have beeen furloughed from AA for a year and a half now, and if I never get recalled, at least I can say I fulfilled my dream by flying for a major airline. Thanks to the greedy actions of the Eagle MEC, I may never fly again at AA. If those backstabbers have their way, they will be flying aircraft that clearly should be flown by mainline pilots. I hope you will be able to sleep at night if these actions come to fruition and furloughed AA guys like myself never get recalled. Enjoy your careeer at Eagle as you will never wind up at AA (hopefully).

WyoHerkdriver I am sorry you were furloughed really I am. Eagle furloughed too. However, nothing that the Eagle MEC has done has contributed to you being furloughed. If you were on our property you would know that our MEC has had it's hands full just trying to get the company to honor our contract. Actually our MEC offered 1 out of 3 Eagle jet vacancies to AA in exchange for an improved flowthrough agreement. APA rejected it completely. Heck, before 9.11 there many Eagle pilots would have accepted a staple to the bottom of the AA senority list if it ment for a better future. And with regard to Eagle pilots being greedy, I have worked here for 4 years and I'll make 35k this year, we don't get retirement and no profit sharing even though Eagle is doing so well.

 

[FightTheFuture]

Please explain.. What was the original flowback deal? and what is currently happening?




and you call yourself "FightTheFuture"? That statement is just plain immature..

canadflyau for some back ground look at these links.

http://www.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=4527

http://www.theadvertiser.com/business/html/675EB1ED-5099-4A4F-A773-0C3B02D729D5.shtml


And the username FightTheFuture is an X-files reference, what did you think it meant?

 

[outtolunch]

WyoHerkdriver,

If AA is to fly the 90 seater, at what rates do you think you will get? You won't be paid "top dollar" to fly these things. You may think you will but you won't. Just because it is aa and the apa, you won't see as much as you are thinking. Look at the industry average for an aircraft of this type.....you've got CHQ with negotiated rates, as well as Mesa. Northwest has their DC-9's but the EMB's aren't in the same class. 2X2 seating, the pax are still going to look at it as a small jet and I think the pilots and fa's would gasp when they actually got on and saw the thing....we actually have to fly this thing?!?!

You can thank your MEC for the bad blood from the eagle pilots. Your MEC went behind eagle pilots backs and tried to get all new capt. seats at eagle from incremental growth for the aa furloughed guys. If eagle got 100 new jets.....all capt seats would've gone to aa furloughs. We already had an agreement (letter 3/ supp. w) and you and your MEC tried to get around it in closed meetings with the company. You want to take our seats but won't let us in on the negotiations....who's the backstabber? You think that same company won't work around your agreements?