kissing a... derriers

[Photoflight]

doesn't everybody in this thread know that freight guys are the best!


...HOLY THREAD RESURRECTION!

 

[dime line]

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[TurboJetCpt]

Flew corporate with a Delta furlough. Scared the bejeezes out of me several times. If it ain't 10000 feet long he's gonna scare you. And god help ya on the circle to land at Hilton Head, Jeesuus.

How sad you are...yet...you make me laugh. uke:

 

[cjdriver]

All I can say is, turned final on the circle at the MDA and less than half a mile. You figure the descent angle. This was onto a wet runway by the way at HDX, not ATL. Look it up on Airnav if you've never been. Don't you airline guys practice the circles at recurrent?

 

[Archie Bunker]

All I can say is, turned final on the circle at the MDA and less than half a mile. You figure the descent angle.

Uh, just out of curiosity......why did you let the situation degrade to the above scenario? You are just as responsible for a gooned up approach as your co-pilot. Next time, lose the attitude & try a little CRM instead.

 

[cjdriver]

Archie, made the callouts and expressed my concern, and stopped short of taking control as I knew we would be able to stop. My point is; is that a stabilized approach, is that a preferrable way to arrive at the runway? The Delta furlough I was flying with was the chief pilot btw. I guess the real point I'm making is that corporate/fractional flying has different demands on your skills than most 121 flying, and not all Delta line pilots are cut out for it.

 

[Archie Bunker]

The Delta furlough I was flying with was the chief pilot btw. I guess the real point I'm making is that corporate/fractional flying has different demands on your skills than most 121 flying, and not all Delta line pilots are cut out for it.

What an arrogant statement. Do you have something against Delta pilots by any chance? Reason being is that your post comes across as a real put down to anyone that ever wore the widget wings on their chest. I flew at Delta for a number of years before coming to NJA, and I'm here to tell you that in 25 years of flying, I've never flown or trained with a more professional bunch of guys in my life.

I'm new at NJA, and I have a lot to learn about 91, 91K, and 135 flying, but I'm quite sure that I'll somehow adapt and overcome any obstacles in my way. Hopefully, I won't have anyone like you sitting in the other seat "scared" on an unstable or unsafe approach, yet somehow can't utter the words "I'm uncomfortable with this approach," or better yet, "go around."

Delta will probably be hiring in a couple of years, possibly sooner......maybe you could reapply and get lucky this time around. I'm sure they could use a guy with your expertise in the training dept to square them away.

 

[cjdriver]

I have no aspirations to fly for Delta, and yes from the few Delta guy's I've known I do have a bias against those individuals' autocratic, arrogant attitude. It has no place in the cockpit. And believe me, I and the guys you fly with will call go around when it's necessary. What will you do at that point, hopefully you'll swallow your pride and do the right thing? And yes, you will learn a lot flying fractional. Enjoy.

 

[nerdpilot]

whats the difference between a Delta cockpit and a condom????


you can only fit one prick in a condom..


and the airline guy is right about paying for ones job.

ask the top half at netjets how much they paid for their jobs. Not until about 6 and a half years ago they paid for their jobs at net jets.

 

[Archie Bunker]

I have no aspirations to fly for Delta, and yes from the few Delta guy's I've known I do have a bias against those individuals' autocratic, arrogant attitude.

Then why are you badmouthing an entire pilot group? It makes you sound like a petty little whiner. Angry, bitter, and jealous is no way to go through life. That chip on your shoulder that you are carrying around is going to get real heavy at some point.

And believe me, I and the guys you fly with will call go around when it's necessary.

You mean like the time when you were "scared" on that circling approach with the furloughed Delta pilot? I guess you weren't scared enough to call a go around on that unstable or unsafe approach? Way to gut it out, Sparky.

What will you do at that point, hopefully you'll swallow your pride and do the right thing?

Uh, yeah.....I'm not the one sitting in the right seat scared to death letting the Capt continue an unstable approach, and then bitching about it here on flightinfo.

Next time, try being a little more assertive if you're uncomfortable....you know, that CRM thingy.

 

[cjdriver]

I think you're going a little overboard on using my words to attack me. I used the word scared, I could have used concerned, alerted, etc. Now you've migrated to I was scared to death. If you're going to just make $%it up, then why bother with this. One more time for the slow ones, if I needed to call go, I would have. And in reference to having a chip on my shoulder or being jealous, why do you think everyone aspires to be an airline pilot. Some of us don't necessarily equate professional flying with the airlines. Some if us think GA when they think of flying. I do because I was raised in a GA family. The airlines never come up in conversation. So no, I'm not jealous.
In fact, I've reached my quota on the subject for quite some time. See you in the skies.

 

[Archie Bunker]

I think you're going a little overboard on using my words to attack me. I used the word scared, I could have used concerned, alerted, etc. Now you've migrated to I was scared to death. If you're going to just make $%it up, then why bother with this.

Excuse me....make stuff up??? Attack you? I was just throwing your own words up in your face. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't you say the following:

Flew corporate with a Delta furlough. Scared the bejeezes out of me several times. If it ain't 10000 feet long he's gonna scare you. And god help ya on the circle to land at Hilton Head, Jeesuus.

Yeah, you're absolutely correct. Gross exaggeration on my part. Scared the bejeezes out of me several times, and scared to death aren't close at all. Please forgive me for taking liberties with your descriptive vocabulary.

One more time for the slow ones, if I needed to call go, I would have.

I'm a little confused here, so help me understand. Was the approach in question flown within acceptable standards, and you didn't call for a go around because you are embellishing this whole story for the entertainment value here, or are your CRM skills so weak that the approach was truly unstable, and you didn't call for the go around because the CP was on the controls? Please clarify.

And in reference to having a chip on my shoulder or being jealous, why do you think everyone aspires to be an airline pilot.

I don't. Never said anything remotely close to that. That little jab I took at you about Delta hiring in the near future is called sarcasm.....get it, or do you need me to explain it to you?

With regard to that chip on your shoulder......actually it's more like a cord of wood. Why would you take the time to attack and insult an entire group of professional pilots on a public forum if you didn't harbor some serious hostility towards that group? Maybe a little professional counseling might help you alleviate some of that pent up hostility. I mean really......where is the love man?

Some of us don't necessarily equate professional flying with the airlines.

Really? That's an interesting perspective. With what do you equate professional flying, first and foremost? Serious question.

So no, I'm not jealous.

Ok buddy, whatever you say. Fly safe.

 

[jet1man]

Archie....good response.

I'm thinking about leaving my current position for NJ (if they'll hire me). Seems like a great place, plus my new child won't graduate from High School until after I retire if I stay in the 121 game...

Anyway, I was checking out your current position and I was wondering....How is Edith reverse cowgirl....or maybe Edith doggie....LOL.. Also does she do chicks?

 

[Archie Bunker]

Archie....good response.

I'm thinking about leaving my current position for NJ (if they'll hire me). Seems like a great place, plus my new child won't graduate from High School until after I retire if I stay in the 121 game...

Good luck in your quest for employment at NJA. Unless you are a Capt with some seniority at your regional job, NJA will be a huge improvement in the QOL department.....probably in the pay dept too.

Anyway, I was checking out your current position and I was wondering....How is Edith reverse cowgirl....or maybe Edith doggie....LOL.. Also does she do chicks?

Hey, that's kinda personal!! But if you must know....Edith doesn't manja la tapeto.....if you catch my drift.

 

[jet1man]

I'm at eight year CPT pay now. Still thinking the move may pay off in the long run. What A/C are you on?

 

[skiandsurf]

I'm at eight year CPT pay now. Still thinking the move may pay off in the long run. What A/C are you on?

If you dont mind a little, well a lot, of "work", make the move. This is the best kept secret in aviation. The word is starting to get out, so get on now.

 

[FLYLOW22]

In light of the state of pay and working conditions at my former airline, the commute and uncertainty of 121 in general (it's like 10 competitors climbing an oil covered pyramid to play king of the hill) I am not planning on returning.

The only airliner I look forward to being in is the one I'm riding to my airplane or home.

The whole system is screwed when the company cancels pensions, cuts pay 46%, furlough massively and replaces with RJs as big as DC9s and then makes a profit totalling hundreds of millions... and the federal government gives the knod on the whole deal.

Glad I made the switch... not that I had much of a choice as to whether I needed a job. I just couldn't picture myself looking for an airline job in my 40's or 50's.

I also think, "What's better? Holding out for 30 years to make $300,000 (doesn't exist anymore) my last 3 years of service before mandatory retirement or making $150,000 average (does exist) for 30 years.... every year".

Coffee, ice and papers please!!

 

[skiandsurf]

The only airliner I look forward to being in is the one I'm riding to my airplane or home.

I had heard that "airlining to and from" is the worst part about this job. How true. The airlines are a joke.

-Dirty terminals vs Clean FBOs.
-Rude airline employees vs nice and helpful FBO employees.
-Waiting in line at McDonalds vs having catered (free) meals delivered to the plane.
-worrying about missing a commute or jumpseat vs positive space travel.

 

[Snakum]

I 've talked to a lot of frac guys in the past year at various FBOs from NetJets, CShares, Flex, and Avantair and most were exceptionally nice guys, even if a couple of the NJ guys were a bit 'vocal' back during the labor issues there. A few, after suffering my newbie questions, even went so far as to invite me out to look in their aircraft, where I've gotten a grand tour of ... Falcon 2000, C750, C560XL, C550, G200, and Lear 31 and 45. Very, very nice guys ... every single one. And in talking to them I found that these folks came from airlines - retired and furloughed - from piston cargo, small corporate, charter, and just about every other career track there is. I dont think their background had anything at all to do with the 'tool factor'. Of course, my experience might not translate to the cockpit, but I thought it was a valid observation.

Oh ... had only one 'bad/odd' experience with a Frac crew ... I'll get flamed but this is too good to not relate it here. As a disclaimer, I realize this kid could have been flying for any fractional and it was only incidental that it was Flex Jet:

I flew in a Baron to HTO on Long Island recently, and as I was unloading our pax and their bags a Flex Lear (45?) came in with an older, short, bald Captain and a very young-looking FO. As the guy I flew up with and I were admiring the aircraft, the crew disembarks and it looked like the Captain was trying to get away from the FO. The FO comes out and I swear ... he looks over at us and you could literally see his chest swell up as he gave us the biggest "I'm on a Lear and you're on a Baron" look I've ever seen. It was so blatantly obvious that the guy I was flying with, furloughed Aloha and one of the absolute nicest guys I've ever met, says "Oh ... he's one of those." and rolled his eyes. The FO kept going back in the aircraft and fiddling with something inside and then running out to where the Captain was trying to make his way to the FBO (Myers). This happened three times and finally the FO comes out and resumes his chest-swell while tossing a water bottle up in the air and swaggering to the FBO. He's literally staring at us and grinning (weird) and he drops the water bottle mid-swagger and kicked it while trying to pick it up (Mr. Smooth ) and when we laughed and looked over at the Captiain who's finally near the FBO door, and the poor fellow is shaking his head back and forth in an "Oh God ... why me" manner before turning and going inside. Kinda' funny. Maybe a bit sad, too. I guess every company has "one of those", and where he came from is probably irrelevant.

 

[gump88]

Furloughed from a regional and looking at a possible frac career. The pay and upgrade issues have been discussed here plenty. Just wondering, for an airline guy with a good attitude but not used to kissing rich people's *sses, so to speak, does that part of the job get easy after a while? Not flame bait, but seriously wondering from others who have done the airline transition, since I guess I won't truly know if I'll like it until I've been doing it a while.

DON'T do it!!!!!!!!!! Flying the RJ's is a much more rewarding career!!!!!!!!

G