KGMB Hawaii blows the lid on Mesa / go! and pilot fatigue!

[av8er2]

There is a real problem out there with fatigue.

 

[Guitar Guy]

The NTSB has already cited fatigue as a probable cause in several accidents. Here's a transcript of James Hall's speech in Little Rock, AR on January 26, 2000. Note that he cites fatigue not just in relation to AA 1420 but to other accidents as well: http://www.ntsb.gov/Speeches/former/hall/jhc000126.htm

As long as the Airline Transport Association (ATA) remains strong, the rest rules will likely not be reviewed or revised.

 

[flytheblue]

Did they fall asleep or get lost??

NTSB Identification: SEA08IA080
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of Mesa Airlines (D.B.A. GO)
Incident occurred Wednesday, February 13, 2008 in Hilo, HI
Aircraft: Bombardier, Inc. CL-600-2B19, registration: N651BR
Injuries: 43 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On February 13, 2008, about 1000 Hawaiian standard time, a Bombardier, Inc., CL-600-2B19, N651BR, operated by Mesa Airlines, dba GO!, Phoenix, Arizona, overflew its destination airport, General Lyman Field (HTO), Hilo, Hawaii, while in cruise flight. The airplane subsequently reversed course, descended, and landed uneventfully at HTO. The incident occurred during a regularly scheduled, domestic, passenger flight, which was conducted in accordance with 14 CFR Part 121, and an instrument flight rules flight plan was filed and activated. The airplane was not damaged, and there were no injuries to the 40 passengers or 3 crewmembers. The flight originated from the Honolulu International Airport, Honolulu, Hawaii, about 0916.

According to air traffic control personnel, the airplane was in cruise flight at 21,000 feet when the controller made several unsuccessful attempts to contact the flight crew. About 1000, the controller was able to established radio contact with the flight crew, but only after the airplane had overflown HTO by about 15 miles. The controller then issued the flight crew a course change back to HTO, where it landed about 15 minutes later.

Company maintenance personnel subsequently performed a functionality check on the airplane's pressurization system. The check proved negative for any system anomalies. Additionally, the airplane was checked for carbon monoxide exposure with negative results.

 

[RJP]

:erm: Wait......Hilo is HTO? Not ITO? Who is General Lyman? Where the hell have I been going all these years?

 

[Guitar Guy]

:erm: Wait......Hilo is HTO? Not ITO? Who is General Lyman? Where the hell have I been going all these years?

HTO/KHTO is East Hapmton, NY.

ITO/PHTO is Hilo, HI.

Looks like the NTSB needs to edit their report.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

There is a real problem out there with fatigue.

I agree. In fact I wanted to read all these threads, but I'm just too tired!

 

[TurboAWD]

The duty/rest rules in the US are a joke. Hopefully ALPA and the NTSB will get them improved eventually.

Until then, what that means is you have to stand up for yourself and tell the company NO when you are not fit to fly.

Turbo

 

[Fred Rogers]

I know at my company they are much happier backing down on schedule extensions etc. when you drop the ol' F-Bomb. They do not want Fatigue reports being scattered around drawing attention to the horrible schedules.

I pray that this issue explodes to a frenzy and public outcry for tougher rules. They will not understand the effect on ticket prices until it's too late.

I hope news outlets continue to interview anonymous pilots regarding this issue. BTW, I also think that the fact that we are so scared to own our statements on a major safety issue reflects a whole other dimension of problems. This is why govt. employees have whistleblower protection, and a merit based upgrade system is a TERRIBLE threat.

sorry if I'm rambling. I'M TIRED!

 

[OB-CPO]

I know at my company they are much happier backing down on schedule extensions etc. when you drop the ol' F-Bomb. They do not want Fatigue reports being scattered around drawing attention to the horrible schedules.

I pray that this issue explodes to a frenzy and public outcry for tougher rules. They will not understand the effect on ticket prices until it's too late.

I hope news outlets continue to interview anonymous pilots regarding this issue. BTW, I also think that the fact that we are so scared to own our statements on a major safety issue reflects a whole other dimension of problems. This is why govt. employees have whistleblower protection, and a merit based upgrade system is a TERRIBLE threat.

sorry if I'm rambling. I'M TIRED!

I remember a couple daya ago the www.dontflygo.com had a link to the FAA Whistleblower program.

yep, here it is. Whistleblower Protection Program

 

[acaTerry]

You may think this incident will focus national attention on the fatigue issue, but you'd be wrong. The American people just want cheap transportation. Revising the rest rules would just require airlines to hire more crews, and would raise fares.

All that will happen is this crew will be publicly castigated as bad guys, will be disposed of, and the public will think the bad apples have been weeded out. Then they will stick their heads back in the sand and pretend the fatigue issue doesn't exist, while they sit back and enjoy their $199 transcon flight and bitch there's no free meal service.

Hey JP,
Long time no argue! Anyways, I can agree mostly here that nobody cares. But once enough crashes occur, AND FI ROOKIES KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT ABOUT JUDGEMENTS, they will show a little concern. In the meantime, 300-hr wonder kids will continue peeing in their pants for that jet flying....filling the gaps caused by those who came to know better.

 

[cfi_greg]

the rules will only change after the public/faa has had enough accidents. the only thing we can do is draw attention to the problem when we can and hope less it lessens the number of accidents required to make a rule change.

quote]

The FAA is a tombstone agency. They need tombstones before they will ever implement change, and there's also the cost benifit analysis side of it too.

 

[RJP]

The public will never care as long as oil is $106 a barrel and they're still paying $39 fares.

 

[islandhopper]

Holly Hegeman finally had something to say about this episode between KGMB and Ornstein in her weekly newsletter.

Apparently, the Mesa Air Group board of directors has no problem with their CEO instigating meaningless SLAPP suits against members of the press who merely report factual information.

Apparently, they also don't have a problem with their CEO losing control with journalists either. Stacy Loe, reporter for a television station in Honolulu apparently called the airline for comments concerning the go! airliner that recently strayed off course. She was the one who broke the story, and she was following up on reports she had received concerning problems with Mesa scheduling and the
issue of pilot rest. Jonathan personally talked to her.

According to Ms. Loe, "Ornstein threatened to sue if I went ahead with it [the story]. Swore at me several times. Then said the stuff about threatening a lawsuit is off the record. Had no comment to my inquiries and promptly hung up."

You would think that behavior like this from their CEO might concern the Mesa Air Group board of directors. Apparently not.

Amazing.

 

[acaTerry]

As usual, it will take blood to get any rules to change. That's what happens when the system is reactive, not proactive.

Already has...AAL, Little Rock, oh wait...that was bad judgement (forget the fact that when dead tired, it is nearly impossible to make very sound judgements). Deaf ears.

 

[asa rat]

It seems that truck drivers have better work rules...
Guess the airlines have better lobbyists.

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/trucks.html