Kelly: SWA costs too high

[Dash Power]

I hope you're right, but that sounds very overoptimistic. Letters like this are typically the prelude to the coming storm. The next letter will describe how SW has attempted to cut costs through productivity and preserve pay rates but that it is still at a competitive disadvantage. It will go on to say that management will sit down with the Unions and work groups to try to brainstorm other avenues of increased productivity. The letter may even solicit ideas from the "front line" employees on what can be done.

A few weeks will pass before the third letter. The third letter was actually written well before the first letter, but couldn't be made public until the employees were mentally prepared for it.

Or, it could just be that Gary wants to keep everyone in the loop about how tough it is to manage an airline.

I am being "very overoptomistic" and you are just being a mystic.

We are an average of 25% more productive than the other Legacies. There are far fewer employees per airplane than any of the others. How exactly are we going to get more productive?

 

[Dash Power]

I wouldn't count on it.



No, $200k is certainly sustainable for a 737 captain. The problem isn't the CA making $200k, the problem is the CA who manipulates the system to the limits and pulls in over $400k. Yes, there are a decent number of SWA captains making that number, and there are a good number of FOs cracking $200k. More power to them, since the contract currently allows it, but it isn't sustainable long-term. Unfortunately, I think a lot of those pilots who pull in those kinds of numbers are leveraged to the hilt and won't be able to pay their bills if they can't make that kind of money, so they're probably going to suffer when Gary gets the "productivity enhancements" that he wants.

You are clueless.

What is a "good number"? 30? 40? 50?

Out of six thousand pilots?!?!?!?

One or two pilots mayyyyyybe approached 400 grand. But I think that could be folklore which is very rich in this company. A breath of truth with an entertaining amount of exaggeration.

And it is not a manipulation. This makes SWA money and don't fool yourself otherwise. It has been going on the entire 20 years I have been here. Those FEW pilots don't have much of a life because they live to work the system.

Pretty scarey that you were put in a position you say you hold.

 

[wood pecker]

What would happen if Swapa offered an extension to current contract to get a positive piece published in the media to counter the greedy pilots crowd. If fuel is main cost, it would make sense to lower that via 1 eng taxi out and in.

Of course at AT after 9-11 pilots sacrificed to prevent furloughs yet management I believe got a large bonus.

 

[Bringupthebird]

WN has picked all the low-hanging Point-to-point fruit. Now they've chosen to go up-market with larger airports that they used to consciously avoid. Next will have to be smaller point-to-point markets but they can't launch that if the costs of failure are too high.

It's like that funny State Farm ad: "Hi Gary, is your airline up a pole?" GK will be looking for an insurance policy in the form of lower costs.

 

[texman]

What would happen if Swapa offered an extension to current contract to get a positive piece published in the media to counter the greedy pilots crowd. If fuel is main cost, it would make sense to lower that via 1 eng taxi out and in.

Of course at AT after 9-11 pilots sacrificed to prevent furloughs yet management I believe got a large bonus.

This is coming next year. Single eng taxi.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ain't nothing to it, as long as you think about what you're doing. . . . . Have two engines going when you're crossing active runways from a stop (ie LGA, ATL etc). Don't try to taxi single engine when the runways are gooey (PHL) or slick, or when you're in a conga line going uphill.

And, for gawd's sake, don't never try to takeoff with only one going . . . . The config horn will make you spill your coffee.

 

[wood pecker]

Isn't everyone missing the fact that SW will kick rears on future international routes w the 800s?

I'll bet there are some routes that pax will welcome SW w open wallets. ATL's new international hub might welcome some LUV as well.

Do y'all have online training or is everything in a classroom. We have crewplace.com and is a pretty awesome tool that I hope SW will adopt as well to save $.

 

[IslandDriver]

We do a lot of training on line. Developed mostly in house I believe.

 

[General Lee]

Isn't everyone missing the fact that SW will kick rears on future international routes w the 800s?

I'll bet there are some routes that pax will welcome SW w open wallets. ATL's new international hub might welcome some LUV as well.

Do y'all have online training or is everything in a classroom. We have crewplace.com and is a pretty awesome tool that I hope SW will adopt as well to save $.

Say what? Riiiiight. Those -800s will save SWA's bacon....???? In the meantime, they still have junky 737-300s, -500s, and 717s that nobody knows how long will stay there. But, the -800s will do the job, until they go up against Hawaiian 767s (lower CASM, more seats), and any widebody they ever try to go up against to Europe (I can't wait to see that!). And what do you mean by the above statement highlighted?

You sound like you are a student at Empty Nipple. Oh, your profile says CL65, so maybe you just graduated from there and now have an RJ job.... Good luck to you!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[wood pecker]

Just trying to be positive there little general. I never wanted bad things to happen to y'all during the NW deal but it's a whole different attitude from my delta friends who can only put down south west. It was reported a while back that ATL was desperate for $ during the construction of that terminal.

Maybe it's all paid for now but I'm sure the politicians would be happy for more $. SW just saved $ by not getting gates in DC do maybe they can buy some ATL gates for their future mega hub. Just kidding not hating.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Listen, I hope you guys keep your pay rates and work rules. That helps raise the bar for all of us. However, reading the CEO's memo makes me think that's the opening salvo in your next contract talks.

Capital costs are fixed. Fuel costs are what they are. The easiest costs to control in the airline business are labor costs. Sadly, I think he's coming for yours.

 

[General Lee]

Just trying to be positive there little general. I never wanted bad things to happen to y'all during the NW deal but it's a whole different attitude from my delta friends who can only put down south west. It was reported a while back that ATL was desperate for $ during the construction of that terminal.

Maybe it's all paid for now but I'm sure the politicians would be happy for more $. SW just saved $ by not getting gates in DC do maybe they can buy some ATL gates for their future mega hub. Just kidding not hating.

Yeah, I don't think SWA will be using the new terminal very much. As far as putting down SWA, I actually think it is a pretty darn good company, it's just some of the SWA guys on here are a bit too cocky. Some of them didn't treat their new Airtran brothers well during the SLI talks too, which will stick with them for awhile. I also hope they don't give up a penny on their current rates, because that is where I would like our 737 payrates to be someday. I don't hate SWA at all, I just think a few guys on here need to realize where they currently are, and realize where they could go next, which is down.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Listen, I hope you guys keep your pay rates and work rules. That helps raise the bar for all of us. However, reading the CEO's memo makes me think that's the opening salvo in your next contract talks.

Capital costs are fixed. Fuel costs are what they are. The easiest costs to control in the airline business are labor costs. Sadly, I think he's coming for yours.

I agree with Fubi. Hopefully though you will hold on to those rates until after we try to get them ourselves for our 737s. Fingers crossed!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[vixin]

Isn't it cool when a Union leader criticizes a great contract and pilots using it to make a great wage.

We are ALPA, and we are defeated before the first shot is fired.

I am just glad he was on your side. How long will it take him to remove that stupid we are alpo tag anyway?

 

[27 driver]

I am just glad he was on your side. How long will it take him to remove that stupid we are alpo tag anyway?

He probably has it tattooed on his back.

 

[AAPilot]

Everyone mocks and laughs at United, but I'm beginning to see a money making machine. In a few years, I think United will be the hot place to be. Especially if we get a good contract, it'll be hard to get an interview. With the upcoming movement and retirements, this will be the place to be. SW and Kelly are starting to feel the heat and they're looking around to make it run better and make more money for investors. But eventually, something has to give and that's usually employee wages. Also, SW will change the guard over time and that, unfortunately, will change SW's culture. In 5 or so years, it'll be a different place. Then again...2012 is coming and the Mayan calendar ends....so it's all over anyways.

Yeah just like the good ole days....Your an F/O, minority, woman, your hired...sweet

 

[wood pecker]

Thanks General. I know u were supportive of us during the whole integration so thank u. Maybe a SW guy can verify but in their quarterly brief I read mentioned sick calls have cost the company $ Fatigue calls increased as well so my guess is instead of pay cuts there will be some changes to work rules vs hourly rates. I skimmed the article in order to give it back to the owner. Lots of good press about the 800 which is why I brought it up.

 

[Whataburger]

I agree with Fubi. Hopefully though you will hold on to those rates until after we try to get them ourselves for our 737s. Fingers crossed!


Bye Bye---General Lee

I posted this on another thread and you "forgot" to "debate" it. I figured you did not see it so:
So GENERAL CHEESE, you claim DAL is shooting for SWA rates, right?

Fact:

Currently in the 737NG,

DAL 12yr FO: $119/hr
DAL 12yr CA: 174/hr

SWA 12yr FO: $147/hr
SWA 12yr CA: $210/hr

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IF/WHEN DAL ALPO GETS YOUR NEXT CONTRACT THAT DAL FO'S WILL GET A 23% RAISE AND DAL CAPTS WILL GET A 21% RAISE TO GET SWA RATES?

You can even ask the LBB accountant for help!! I bet she's FANTASTIC!!:blush:

 

[flythere]

I have a good idea, how about charging a fair price for the ticket! Instead of this $69.0 stuff, why not charge a more reasonable price, based on operating cost? I guess we'll see how SW does with some stiff competition and less hedges!

 

[waveflyer]

I have a good idea, how about charging a fair price for the ticket! Instead of this $69.0 stuff, why not charge a more reasonable price, based on operating cost? I guess we'll see how SW does with some stiff competition and less hedges!

Game on brethren.:nuts: Not scared of you at all. But keep undercutting us thinking that'll be the magic pill to help you win. I'll take our "overpaid" people against yours any day.
:beer: