Kalitta Air or Jet Blue

[Jet Jock]

With very good prospects for a job at either airline, what airline would you choose?

 

[pilotpm]

Kalitta would be fun for a couple of years but Jet Blue would be the long term career choice I would make.

 

[johnsonrod]

With very good prospects for a job at either airline, what airline would you choose?

What kind of flying do you want to do? Would you mind being away for 17 days at a time? Kalitta mainly does International flying, while JB mainly does domestic. If you don't live in NYC, you may have to commute to reserve in NYC for a couple years if you go to JB, whereas I think you might be able to live anywhere for Kalitta. You may have always wanted to fly a 747, which means Kalitta may be your choice. The biggie in my mind would be being away from the US for 17 straight days. If you can do that, maybe Kalitta is your airline. Good luck.

 

[75 Driver]

Let's see: fly for a sh#tbag outfit with an single owner who could clutch his chest at any moment. Or he might just just get tired of this current set of "crybabies" (his words), or work for a company actively traded in the public forum with real schedules.

This is really a tough one.....

 

[Jet Jock]

Most important things: pay, job security, quality of life, upgrade

Kalitta: home basing, quick upgrade (leading to better pay)

JetBlue: more secure, less days out in a row (quality of life)

 

[embpic1]

Let's see: fly for a sh#tbag outfit with an single owner who could clutch his chest at any moment. Or he might just just get tired of this current set of "crybabies" (his words), or work for a company actively traded in the public forum with real schedules.

This is really a tough one.....

Connie has been setting up Kalitta to continue after his departure/retirement. We are making money hand over fist right now. We are buying new aircraft with cash with the exception of the 400s. Those 400s are being paid off quickly. The first three are already paid for and the other two will be in a year or so. Connie does 'not like to owe the banks money' (His words). We have the nicest classic sim out there. Connie just spent over a million dollars just to upgrade the graphics in it to the latest and greatest. We also have a 400 sim that is almost done. Certification should happen in a few months.

We are hiring quite a bit these days. I was in the sim today and a bunch of newhires were doing there type orals. There were also many interviews and sim evals taking place.

Sure we have our problems, but so does everyone. I have been here for six years and still enjoy it. Sure the 17 days kinda sucks but you get used to it. I just had 18 days off without using any vacation. Kinda nice. I only have to deal with the TSA twice a month (another plus). I have been to places that most people have never even heard of. I have had some great times on trips (Like going to the F1 races in Bahrain on a layover and walking around Red Square in Moscow)

As for Jet Blue, we actually have a former JB captain that is here. He is now a captain on the 400 and from what he told me, Kalitta is better fit for him.

 

[Jet Jock]

Does JetBlue have plenty of overtime available? Kalitta pays overtime at 150%? Again overtime can really crimp QOL but it is nice to know it is available if needed.

 

[GittinFatter]

Kalitta has guys that quit to go to the Blue, and Blue quit to come here. Kalitta has several former guys that hate the Blue.
So, Mr. 75 driver, don't be so hasty to ASSUME that the answer is so simple. It may be for you, but thank the easter bunny that everyone is not like you.

 

[Fubijaakr]

The one Kalitta pilot I know is VERY happy there.

 

[Jet Jock]

The Kalitta pilot is happy that he went to JetBlue or is happy at Kalitta?

Not sure why some think it is such an easy choice. Kalitta is not the "old outfit" that it once was and is steadily growing.

JetBlue is growing too and has a flexible schedule.

As for passengers vs freight...I couldn't care less.

 

[75 Driver]

17 days on the road, not going to do anything but get longer with time.

No Connie, no company that fantasy just will not fly.

The other thing to look at is do you really want to spend a majority of your life with the kind of folks that are there. Was sitting in the Hotel in JFK the other day next to a Connie crew. Counted how many times the word F#ck was used in about sixty seconds (figured he was going for a record) , 16 times this mensa warrior used the word in a place that had children and normal people within ear shot. Everybody in the room kept flashing glares at this idiot and all it did was make him increase his volume.

You are what you eat and you become what you hang with, I would not wish that on anbody. So JetJock it is your life, where it goes is up to you.

Still a no brainer.....

 

[Redmeat]

With very good prospects for a job at either airline, what airline would you choose?

The 747 would be a fun airplane with fun flying (for awhile) and the schedule (blocks of time off) would be great for a younger person or one with no family at home.

Kalitta Air could be gone this time next year, A'la AIA (chalk me up as one who does not believe the operation will survive long without Connie).
JB is a publicly traded airline with enough forward moving critical mass that for it to disappear things would REALLY be bad for everybody in the industry.

Not sure of your age, but one of these days, maybe sooner maybe later, you are gonna wake up in the morning and the last thing you would like to do is go to the airport and go away on a trip. At that point I would venture to guess that JB would be the much easier (read: livable) job to do until retirement...
YMMV

 

[Classicdriver]

I have to say, a lot more guys have left Atlas to go to JB, than the other way around.

 

[GittinFatter]

The non-sked freight business ain't for everyone. The people here seem to like it. We have guys furloughed from American that have no near plan to return. We have a lot of ATA guys here that like it. if you want to fly domesticly for the rest of your life, go ahead. If you want to see the world, have some fun, fly a whale, be able to tell some cool stories, Kalitta is the place. We have the 2 finest 747 sims in the world. WE are expanding. numerous second year year F/O's have broken 100K.
There have been many airlines that have have gone out of business that everyone thought were untouchable. no airline is safe! Just ask anyone who has been in the business 20 years.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I have a FlyI alum who spent 2 years at Kalitta and is now an E190 FO at JB and couldn't be happier.

Seeing the world is nice, but don't think for a minute that you're not going to be out for 18 days straight and spending a good amount of time in the middle seat in coach (at least that was the policy at another nonsked where I did my postgrad work.) That may not be the case at Kalitta but definitely ask.

The majors have pass benefits, better (read easier) training, more egalitarian/automated scheduling protocols, and generally a better culture.

The nonskeds have home basing (nice if you live in small town in the middle of nowhere) and the potential for a lot of fun on overnights. But even a 3-day layover in Honolulu isn't going to be very fun if you miss your kids. You're also dealing with a much smaller company where your schedule and income can be based more on whether you're in the good graces of a scheduler than your seniority (again, I speak from experience.)

In the end you have to ask yourself where you want to reitre.

 

[lionflyer]

I was in a similar situation. I declined an interview with Jetblue for the reason that there was no way I was going to commute to NYC for $40/hr in the 190 with a 7+ year upgrade (at the time anyway). Yes I know they make more now. You get used to the 17 days and being home for 13-14 days straight is nice. The Co pays for your ticket to work so you can live where you want. You'll definitely make more money at Kalitta. My only grip about Kalitta is the 18hr duty days we sometime do (which will hopefully be dead & buried in a few months) and the complete clusterf&%$ that is our scheduling dept. There is no accountabily and it's run like it's 1965. Connie says there is a plan for when he is gone but I don't know. Roll the dice and take your chances. I certainly don't think Doug is cabable of running it. I think we'll eventually be sold or merged with someone because the Co is a goldmine.

 

[PUNISHER]

I was in a similar situation. I declined an interview with Jetblue for the reason that there was no way I was going to commute to NYC for $40/hr in the 190 with a 7+ year upgrade (at the time anyway). Yes I know they make more now. You get used to the 17 days and being home for 13-14 days straight is nice. The Co pays for your ticket to work so you can live where you want. You'll definitely make more money at Kalitta. My only grip about Kalitta is the 18hr duty days we sometime do (which will hopefully be dead & buried in a few months) and the complete clusterf&%$ that is our scheduling dept. There is no accountabily and it's run like it's 1965. Connie says there is a plan for when he is gone but I don't know. Roll the dice and take your chances. I certainly don't think Doug is cabable of running it. I think we'll eventually be sold or merged with someone because the Co is a goldmine.

Just curious why you think Doug is not capable of running K4?

 

[spitfire1500]

Let's see: fly for a sh#tbag outfit with an single owner who could clutch his chest at any moment. Or he might just just get tired of this current set of "crybabies" (his words), or work for a company actively traded in the public forum with real schedules.

This is really a tough one.....

......yea go to Atlas!!

 

[johnsonrod]

I have a FlyI alum who spent 2 years at Kalitta and is now an E190 FO at JB and couldn't be happier.

Seeing the world is nice, but don't think for a minute that you're not going to be out for 18 days straight and spending a good amount of time in the middle seat in coach (at least that was the policy at another nonsked where I did my postgrad work.) That may not be the case at Kalitta but definitely ask.

The majors have pass benefits, better (read easier) training, more egalitarian/automated scheduling protocols, and generally a better culture.

The nonskeds have home basing (nice if you live in small town in the middle of nowhere) and the potential for a lot of fun on overnights. But even a 3-day layover in Honolulu isn't going to be very fun if you miss your kids. You're also dealing with a much smaller company where your schedule and income can be based more on whether you're in the good graces of a scheduler than your seniority (again, I speak from experience.)

In the end you have to ask yourself where you want to reitre.

3-days in sunny HNL? Sounds like a good job if you WANT to get away from your nagging wife and punk kids (joking)... Everyone is different - I guess it is a matter of perspective.

 

[GogglesPisano]

And before anyone corrects my spelling "reitre" is French-Dyslexic-Canut for "retire." :erm:

 

[Victor Meldrew]

The 17 days go before you realize it.
Quite easy to make 6 figures as an FO without breaking a sweat and being an OT whore.
NO PASSENGERS and NO WHINNING FA's (the big plus).
Home based.
No up and down the NE corridor for days on end.
Heavy time with type now from initial hire.
Every part of the world to be seen and get paid for it.
On the subject of pay reasonable rates now but a lot better to come. Talk is 30%+ raise aka Atlas new deal.
Long stretches off.

The list goes on. Been doing this for 5+ years now and wish I'd done it far sooner. At the end of the day only you can decide.

 

[lionflyer]

Just curious why you think Doug is not capable of running K4?

He's not Connie. K2 is also under Connies umbrella even though it's "run by Doug".

 

[GogglesPisano]

Heavy time with type now from initial hire.
.

I notice guys bring that up a lot. The only purpose of getting "heavy time" is to use it to jump ship to another nonsked or an overseas operator. Majors couldn't care less about heavy time, they want PIC and connections and a good attitude.

Again, I think the original poster is looking for a destination, not a stepping stone. And unless he's 21 with a few years to waste, he should be thinking destination.

 

[PUNISHER]

He's not Connie. K2 is also under Connies umbrella even though it's "run by Doug".

Yeah he's definitely not Connie but he brings alot of experience to the table. I highly doubt Connie has time to run K2 for Doug. I think you guys are really under estimating Doug's capabilities. He started at the bottom flying beeches and Lears, working his way up to DC-8 Captain. Since then he has been running his own companies sucsessfuly for the last decade. He has used capital from Connie to get started but the companies have been pretty self sufficient since. Currently owns and operates Kalitta Charters, Kalitta Charters II, Fly a Charter, and DK Turbines.
He definitely has the experience for day to day operations, and he knows how to find cheap airplanes and run a business on tight margins. With a good sales team to help him get new contracts, K4 would continue on as usual. The real question is what would happen to K1 and K2 if Doug takes over K4?

 

[lionflyer]

Yeah he's definitely not Connie but he brings alot of experience to the table. I highly doubt Connie has time to run K2 for Doug. I think you guys are really under estimating Doug's capabilities. He started at the bottom flying beeches and Lears, working his way up to DC-8 Captain. Since then he has been running his own companies sucsessfuly for the last decade. He has used capital from Connie to get started but the companies have been pretty self sufficient since. Currently owns and operates Kalitta Charters, Kalitta Charters II, Fly a Charter, and DK Turbines.
He definitely has the experience for day to day operations, and he knows how to find cheap airplanes and run a business on tight margins. With a good sales team to help him get new contracts, K4 would continue on as usual. The real question is what would happen to K1 and K2 if Doug takes over K4?

I sincerely hope you're right. My gut tells me otherwise. Maybe it's my overall negative experience with airlines over the last decade. K2 would probably be merged. The Lear operation would stay seperate. Anyway, Kalitta Air is better than most despite my earlier gripes. The Co just needs to get out of the 60's

 

[av16]

Doug is more than capable, it would be different no doubt. I no longer work for Kalitta for my own reasons but would not hesitate to work for Doug again should the need arise

 

[airgator]

Was sitting in the Hotel in JFK the other day next to a Connie crew. Counted how many times the word F#ck was used in about sixty seconds (figured he was going for a record) , 16 times this mensa warrior used the word in a place that had children and normal people within ear shot. Everybody in the room kept flashing glares at this idiot and all it did was make him increase his volume.

First off, what "normal" person would bring their children to the Five Towns? Second, I doubt a bunch of cargo pilots were embarrassed because one of theirs was dropping F bombs. Your story is filled with holes.

 

[Guam360]

First off, what "normal" person would bring their children to the Five Towns? Second, I doubt a bunch of cargo pilots were embarrassed because one of theirs was dropping F bombs. Your story is filled with holes.

he has definitely never been to Brooklyn, it is a native word there

 

[kdaforever]

Let's see: fly for a sh#tbag outfit with an single owner who could clutch his chest at any moment. Or he might just just get tired of this current set of "crybabies" (his words), or work for a company actively traded in the public forum with real schedules.

This is really a tough one.....

I opt for single owner type airline. 'cause I can commute one leg,reside at the 5 Towns for 12 days and go home....friggin awesome!

 

[Guam360]

First off, what "normal" person would bring their children to the Five Towns? Second, I doubt a bunch of cargo pilots were embarrassed because one of theirs was dropping F bombs. Your story is filled with holes.

i have done both, I don't miss the domestic stuff, I have my reasons for both.
I don't care about the sims that are nice, so what, I like the paid commute, the home basing and the international flying, and especially the 13-14 days home . Now I don't have to miss a good swell.
Not every place has all things that we want so I like my choice. Jetblue was fun and I liked it. the money is about the same.
G