Jumpseat Denied

[SoCentralRain]

Like it or not, often times not, the jumpseat is at the captains discretion.

But it should have nothing to do with personal possesion of a union card.

Out-of-touch Don Quixotes with a burr up their bum trying to make a "statement" by denying a reciprocal jumpseat do nothing but make themselves look like the tools that their right-seater already knows they are.

SCR

 

[717capt]

You can't blame it all on Jetblue. Prior to 9/11 the airline industry was already in a decline. A failed merger between UAL and USAir, AMR lost $500 million in the 2nd quarter of 2001 and that year Jetblue ended with 15 planes and was just a year old-- give me a break, how come you don't bash Spirit for their wages and they even have a union!. Blame your demise on poor managment. Or the way the planets are aligned, I'm tired of your aimless ranting.

Bayou your wasting your time with this crowd. Amazing that no one remembers the state of the industry on Sept. 10th

 

[Laughing_Jakal]

Yea but......

Did you offer to clean the....nevermind.

 

[717capt]

Airtran only takes one jumpseater for each jumpseat on the plane. We want to take more, but our management won't let us yet. It has to be negotiated, but I'm not taking any form of a paycut to get you an extra seat in the back.

Oh, by the way, NW now has unlimited jumpseating for everyone which matches the rest of the industry. I suspect Airtran will get it too someday. We were the last major to get CASS, I suspect we'll be the last major to allow unlimited jumpseaters.

It used to be unlimited jumpseating at Airtran and we just let management change the policy. They specifically and blatently violated our contract with regards to jumpseat procedures and we let them do it, and whats more, we arn't doing anything about getting it back to the way it should be. The whole industry is progressing forward with regards to unlimited jumpseating and we are stagnant. My apologies to anyone that has to pay the $25.

 

[JBPA]

Funny, that's would have been my guess for you too.

Touche! I guess I better brush up with my ol' friend Dale Carnegie.

 

[SWA/FO]

Imagine the world of hurt JB would be in if suddenly none of thier pilots could commute to work. I'm weeping crocodile tears already..... :bomb:

Imagine the world of hurt NWA would be in if suddenly none of their pilots could commute to work.

A few months back while showing my license to a NWA Captain and trying to get his autograph, his FO asked "is Southwest on our list?". When I looked at him (FO) he then asked "are you ALPA?" - "I said NO, is that a problem?"

So since then any NWA guy I see on our jumpseat, I ask them "are you SWAPA?" - most have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[Purpled]

Touche! I guess I better brush up with my ol' friend Dale Carnegie.

Ditto. Off topic, when are you guys gonna be ALPA?

(I figured 7 pages wasn't enough for one day)

 

[NuGuy]

Hi Guys,

On behalf of the pilot group, I want to appologize for any inconviences this tool caused.

Not that it is any excuse, but the group has been under a lot of pressure just recently. Management has come right out and said that they are going to disregard certain parts of the contract.

On top of that, we have another set of pilots conspiring with management to take what little there is left from the junior pilots in the way of retirement.

The good news is that there is now an unlimited jumpseat policy that just went into effect. It will be a few weeks until it filters down to everyone, so please be patient.

The bad news is that the battle royal between bluebook and redbook might get really bad (seems like the greenbook guys are sitting this one out). NWA is not a pleasant place right now, and it's going to get much, much worse.

Nu

 

[737 Pylt]

You paid the company to sit in the right seat as an FO with Gulfstream, and now fly for PNCL and you have the audacity to lecture JetBlue pilots? Amazing.......

This coming from a scumbag who bought his job at asa, turned around, sued alpa for a slot at a mainline job because he was too unqualified to get hired the right way!
John, shouldn't you be busy sending more money to Haber? Spring time's coming around and his pool needs retiling!
TOOL!

737

 

[Dizel8]

They may have to hear me b!tch about transcon turns or cabin cleaning for a minute or two before I sign the form, but they always get a ride.

You know, you are such a sad tool. I have given rides to your fellow airmen from that pay for training outfit you called an airline and I never gave them crap. So why don't you grow the fark up!

 

[JAM-BRO]

Imagine the world of hurt NWA would be in if suddenly none of their pilots could commute to work.

A few months back while showing my license to a NWA Captain and trying to get his autograph, his FO asked "is Southwest on our list?". When I looked at him (FO) he then asked "are you ALPA?" - "I said NO, is that a problem?"

So since then any NWA guy I see on our jumpseat, I ask them "are you SWAPA?" - most have no idea what I'm talking about.

SWAFO

I raise the BS flag on your JS tale. I doubt that there is a single FO at NWA that "A few months back" didn't know that SWA wasn't ALPA. I really don't believe your story. Save it pal!!

I again have to say that I am sorry that this happened. I agree with NUGuy that there is a lot of sh!t being served on our plate at NWA. Still, that's not how OAL JSters should be treated. I've been at NWA for a long time and have yet to see a JS request denied. I hope I never do, unless the guy/gal is a total dumbass.

 

[schafjet]

I know first hand what happened. IB is not a scab. IB was not denied the JS because he did not have a ALPA card, he has a ALPA card (why that matters?), he is a furloughed UAL guy, so he got on the disputed flight. The person denied was another JB guy that was also trying to get home to MSP on that same flight. He did not have a ALPA card and the Captian in his judgement thought he was not worthy. It seems like it is the 757 guys at NWA making all the calls about who is bringing the industry down. I have a ALPA card and work for Sun Country, am I not worthy too? What about the American Pilots, they don't have ALPA cards. Also, does this Captain at NWA realize that JB pilots are trying to bring ALPA onto the property? Get informed before you deny guys a ride home. You wouldn't want this sh!t happening to you.

 

[ultrarunner]

The bottom line is every outfit has a few pricks. This guy got denied but was smart enough to have a plan B. That's the best defense.

The captain that was the prick, for whatever reason, will be ratted out soon enough, and in the end, he'll get his as his name will be on a list.

Nothing to loose sleep over.

 

[McNugget]

For the record, I have been #2 in line for the AirTran jumpseat numerous times and have never been charged the $25. AirTran and jetBlue are hands-down the most hassle free jumpseat experiences in the industry.

 

[Ty Webb]

"Captain's Discretion" doesn't mean "license to be a complete a-hole" . . . at least, not where I come from. It should be reserved for extreme cases, and simply working for a non-ALPA carrier doesn't pass the sniff test. . . . . hell, ALPA doesn't pass the sniff test.



.


.

 

[MCDU]

Very rude by that NWA Capt. . We should have a list of pilots that do not allow fellow aviators to jumpseat.

Marty

 

[Fly4hire]

You can't blame it all on Jetblue. Prior to 9/11 the airline industry was already in a decline. A failed merger between UAL and USAir, AMR lost $500 million in the 2nd quarter of 2001 and that year Jetblue ended with 15 planes and was just a year old-- give me a break, how come you don't bash Spirit for their wages and they even have a union!. Blame your demise on poor managment. Or the way the planets are aligned, I'm tired of your aimless ranting.

Actually the JB effect was a significant accelerator in the process that might otherwise have ended without the BK's or the depth of concessions.

You are correct the legacies were hurting, but the BK and concessions were not until a couple years ago when you had a whole lot more than 15 planes.

The JB bottom pay rates that were more regional in nature and the price dumping of tickets into cherry picked traditional legacy stronhold markets they supported were a very real factor in putting downward pressure on the industry.

AirTran and other smaller carriers had not yet had that effect. Sure if not JB it might have been someone else but it was your kool-aid sipping, managment hugging, glad to be here, work for peanuts wages that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Now you and have the audacity to crow about how you make as much or more than the legacies while extolling the virtue of market forces, etc. And you wonder why you are less than popular some places?

The irony is you will probably end up with ALPA and the pressure to exert better benefits on JB will force Neelman to show his real colors and expidite JB's fall from grace....

 

[zkmayo]

I agree, however we don't want to go down the road of taking the JS authority out of the hands of the Captain either.

Frankly it would not bother me if JB was banned from all ALPA JS's. Not from a personal standpoint against the pilots, but because much of the damage to the industry was inflicted as a result of the (at the time) lowered bar by JB.

From a NWA perspective none of our bases are in LGA, FLL, or JFK. Other than leisure travel none of our pilots use JB to go to work. On the other had we are providing thier pilots a free ride to work in order to allow JB to compete against us.

Imagine the world of hurt JB would be in if suddenly none of thier pilots could commute to work. I'm weeping crocodile tears already..... :bomb:

WOW, are you the NW captain in question or are you just that ignorant?

 

[zkmayo]

Dude, half the industry will dance a jig and piss on your grave when JB goes out of business......

Again, are you the captain in question, or just that ignorant?

 

[cocknbull]

JB has always been more than helpful with their jumpseat. I have sat on the extra FA seat on many flights. Thanks JB.

I have already said, on another thread, that nobody should let the Skybus pilots jumpseat.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but it appears from your profile that you work for JetBlue. If so, I am curious why you think you are any better than a Skybus pilot. At least a Skybus pilot will be able to afford to live in the town where he is based.

 

[atafan]

If Airline Management Reads This Board.

They are laughing their arses off.

Pilots are too busy fighting amongst themselves and stabbing each other in the backs to worry about management's aggressive and successful attack of our quality of life and our future security.

Please, grow up and get a clue.

Group hug everyone, NOW!

 

[cocknbull]

Actually the JB effect was a significant accelerator in the process that might otherwise have ended without the BK's or the depth of concessions.

You are correct the legacies were hurting, but the BK and concessions were not until a couple years ago when you had a whole lot more than 15 planes.

The JB bottom pay rates that were more regional in nature and the price dumping of tickets into cherry picked traditional legacy stronhold markets they supported were a very real factor in putting downward pressure on the industry.

AirTran and other smaller carriers had not yet had that effect. Sure if not JB it might have been someone else but it was your kool-aid sipping, managment hugging, glad to be here, work for peanuts wages that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Now you and have the audacity to crow about how you make as much or more than the legacies while extolling the virtue of market forces, etc. And you wonder why you are less than popular some places?

The irony is you will probably end up with ALPA and the pressure to exert better benefits on JB will force Neelman to show his real colors and expidite JB's fall from grace....

Wow, I was unaware that pilot pay at jetBlue could cause such distruction. I would have thought it was all the governments fault for letting all the "Cherry Picker" airlines just fly the money routes while the legacies had to continue there hub and spoke system for the sake of the world economy. But what do I know.

NWA's own union leader son DW should be the only one denied a jumpseat! ALPA=Tyco under DW.

 

[a320drivr]

I also find it funny that everytime any other airline out there tried to raise ticket prices guess who didnt follow along causing the other airlines to rescind the price increase. NWA.

 

[Nado]

Flyforhire is drinking some good anti-JB koolaide. How does a small startup bring down a global airline again? Maybe if you grew some onions and voted down that TA, things would be different.

Shall we compare ALPA captain rates to JB rates. Last I saw, the assistant secretaries in Herndon were making a lot more money than a lot of Captains they represent. Nice!

It is so easy to blame others for your problems. Intellectually lazy at best.

Seriously, it is good to have you back 32LT10. Looking forward to many more one way, repetitious, suspect arguments.

As a pilot, you will always be welcome on my jumpseat, you don't even have to show an ALPA card.

 

[airjackson]

Buddy at SWA relayed this little incident recently. BWI to STL. A pilot comes up to the Captain and asks for a ride. The Captain asks who he works for and the guy says "trans states", then shows him his GOJET ID. The Captain, perplexed, asks him if he didn't just tell him he worked for trans states? The dude replies he meant trans states holdings. Needless to say, the captain wasn't very impressed and graciously sent the poor guy packing.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Written by Fly4Hire on 12-11-2005
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=839723#post839723

Text quoted below

"Trust me, the vast majority are furious over this kind of BS from our fellow pilots. NWA is a "commuter" airline with most of our employees living out of bases, and we well know the recipricocity needed for all of us to get to work.

In all fairness to this Captain though, what was the nature of the interaction between the JS and the PIC? Was it "you are not riding becuase you are JB" or was the JS presumtious or rude "I have your JS"?

Not right, but there are a lot of people on edge right now, looking for someone to vent on.

I apologize on behalf of the few idiots in our ranks, and hope this is the rare exception.

Personally I try and be real nice to you guys - I might need a reccomendation real soon "
__________________
Take my advice - I don't use it any ways

Last edited by Fly4hire : 12-11-2005 at 13:42.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Written by Fly4Hire on 12-11-2005
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=839723#post839723

Text quoted below

"Trust me, the vast majority are furious over this kind of BS from our fellow pilots. NWA is a "commuter" airline with most of our employees living out of bases, and we well know the recipricocity needed for all of us to get to work.

In all fairness to this Captain though, what was the nature of the interaction between the JS and the PIC? Was it "you are not riding becuase you are JB" or was the JS presumtious or rude "I have your JS"?

Not right, but there are a lot of people on edge right now, looking for someone to vent on.

I apologize on behalf of the few idiots in our ranks, and hope this is the rare exception.

Personally I try and be real nice to you guys - I might need a reccomendation real soon "
__________________
Take my advice - I don't use it any ways

Last edited by Fly4hire : 12-11-2005 at 13:42.

That's pretty funny.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Folks,

I can assure you (I of course cannot speak for everyone) that the two of us who were commuting that day are always professional, respectful, and courteous when we are ASKING for a ride. I've been commuting for years now...I know the protocol. I do have an ALPA card, I am furloughed UAL, and when I requested the jumpseat the response was "Got an ALPA card?". I think the Captain was a little surprised when I produced one. After he looked it over, he signed my jumpseat pass and that was the end of the conversation. My co-worker wasn't so lucky...but acted professionally and coughed up the $35 bucks or so for the pass and got on the airplane. As far as my own experiences, they range from "make yourself at home" to an occasional denial...the last one for me being just over a year ago. I posted this time on here because it has been my observation that this seems to get more results...far more than going through...never mind. In a perfect world there would be no denials...just a whole lotta "make yourself at home". For the record, 95+% of the time I am treated excellent, and I thank those of you at NWA for getting me back and forth to work. However, the few times we run into problems I would like to do anything I can to see it go away. In my opinion the jumpseat is no place for politics...this coming from a commuter. As I read through the posts I can see most folks see it that way, sure you get the occasional fly4hire\32LT10\PFT128. These folks are the extreme and thankfully are few and far between...similar to the Captain we met the other day. How does that go...it takes one bad apple...

 

[Purpled]

How does that go...it takes one bad apple...

I think it starts, "You have to build a thousand bridges..."

 

[schafjet]

I think it starts, "You have to build a thousand bridges..."

I know IB6 personally. I think he is trying to build bridges here. He certainly is not trying to burn bridges.