Judge Silver issued her decision in Addington II

[eaglesview]

Hired at AWA.....an airline not even on most folks radar....and now going to be working for AA soon to be the largest airline and they still bitch. Ask me you all got lucky.

 

[General Lee]

Hired at AWA.....an airline not even on most folks radar....and now going to be working for AA soon to be the largest airline and they still bitch. Ask me you all got lucky.

You mean like the AirCal, Reno Air, and TWA pilots? No, the Easties have so far been the luckiest since they were saved by Parker from almost certain liquidation, and then their union scheme has so far worked. We all know the Easties got lucky, because BINDING arbitration usually means just that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Bringupthebird]

Ask me you all got lucky.

No one asked you. Were you lucky to dig up the most incompetent union "leaders" to ever line their pockets with your money?

How lucky was a group who enjoyed rapid upgrades to be saddled with both bailing out a decrepit legacy also-ran and a union too stupid to see they were paying for the AA merger with LOA93 rates.

I have to ask you, are you feeling lucky, punk?

 

[abefly]

Hired at AWA.....an airline not even on most folks radar....and now going to be working for AA soon to be the largest airline and they still bitch. Ask me you all got lucky.

No, Lucky is you and your MDA friends who were hired at a regional and got padded into the bottom of the seniority list. What's it like to go from a regional to the largest airline in the world without interviewing?

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

If the APA is smart

Only the APA knows for sure as they have 100% of the control over what goes to the arbitrators. But those arbitrators will no doubt look back on the work of one of their own and it will likely resemble the Nic.

The APA would be wise to sit the USAIR group down at the kiddie table and make them come up with an agreement that everyone signs before attempting to fold the group into the American list. Bring the NIC, NIC Jr. as you put it, money, guns and lawyers, etc. and make it happen. This would help keep the APA out of a DFR between the East and the West. IMO.

 

[Bringupthebird]

USAPA won't allow any reps from the west, and frankly I agree. They wanted to be the sole rep and they have confiscated millions of dollars from the west. They need to be held accountable for their actions, or refund us all our dues.

There should be a comic book guide to dealing with USAPA, available at the USAPA bookstore. I think Jeff Foxworthy wrote it.

"If you'd rather pay lawyers to help you undermine the unity of the pilot group, you might be USAPA"

"If you believe that an average 8% difference in seniority or 18 month delay in upgrade is worth fighting for 8 years and spending 30 million dollars, you might be USAPA"

"If you feel paying yourself pennies on the dollar in a signing bonus is an investment, you might be USAPA"

and finally

"If you think DOH is the gold standard just because you put it in your C&BLs, you might be USAPA"

 

[Crzipilot]

wow just wow. How many more millions is the west going to sink into lawsuits which the judges continue to tell them they are wrong?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Hired at AWA.....an airline not even on most folks radar....

So you're the guy who wrote up the radar: "Radar INOP - unable to paint airlines, only displays weather"

 

[Bringupthebird]

wow just wow. How many more millions is the west going to sink into lawsuits which the judges continue to tell them they are wrong?

Pay a real lawyer a few bucks to tell you what Silver said. Your McKee notes are wildly inaccurate!

 

[Crzipilot]

USAPA won't allow any reps from the west, and frankly I agree. They wanted to be the sole rep and they have confiscated millions of dollars from the west. They need to be held accountable for their actions, or refund us all our dues.

There should be a comic book guide to dealing with USAPA, available at the USAPA bookstore. I think Jeff Foxworthy wrote it.

"If you'd rather pay lawyers to help you undermine the unity of the pilot group, you might be USAPA"

"If you believe that an average 8% difference in seniority or 18 month delay in upgrade is worth fighting for 8 years and spending 30 million dollars, you might be USAPA"

"If you feel paying yourself pennies on the dollar in a signing bonus is an investment, you might be USAPA"

and finally

"If you think DOH is the gold standard just because you put it in your C&BLs, you might be USAPA"

Love those generalizations of the NIC award, I was looking at much more than 8% difference in seniority and much much more than 18months upgrade time.

Was the money and time worth it? Definitely, if nothing else. To see the west have a coronary and their infinite spin on the latest ruling.

How ya gonna get out of this one? How much more money does Marty need going forward?

Is Marty's new law firm having a little problem, with no damages coming forth?

 

[Crzipilot]

Pay a real lawyer a few bucks to tell you what Silver said. Your McKee notes are wildly inaccurate!

Really don't need a real lawyer to interpret what she wrote. It's pretty much plain as day if you take off your blinders...

Sure she doesn't like how usapa operates or maybe there lawyers. But as she stated, there is nothing she can do about it. nothing illegal about it. Show me a judge who is in love with a high powered criminal atty, whom seems to win the game more than the prosecutor. You probably can't find one. Does that make the judge more inclined to rule guilty in the face of the facts? Nope, sure doesn't.

So where does it say in the orders that usapa breached it's DFR or that the west self appointed reps will have any say anywhere?

Can you please post the letter or briefing where Marty states that all this order is hog wash, and ulitmately you will get the NIC and a seat at the SLI table? \

Nope, didn't think so. so be quiet and see what happens from here on out...

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Hey Crzi I hear your union is backing off of DOH and going to LOS? How do you feel about that? That will still ensure you are below the majority of AWA pilots.

 

[reepicheep]

You mean like the AirCal, Reno Air, and TWA pilots? No, the Easties have so far been the luckiest since they were saved by Parker from almost certain liquidation, and then their union scheme has so far worked. We all know the Easties got lucky, because BINDING arbitration usually means just that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Not just luck but Smashingly well played. They've just about done it. 10 years ago these guys were carrying their flight bags home with them so they could keep them when the place shut down & they padlocked the crew room. 17 yr. guys on the street. And they have managed not only to survive but bring everybody back and more, dodge binding arbitration and keep their DOH, get pay and T's & C's Airways wouldn't have dreamed of, and wind up retiring in the employ, at long last, of a real airline. Barry Bonds, step aside!

 

[Crzipilot]

Hey Crzi I hear your union is backing off of DOH and going to LOS? How do you feel about that? That will still ensure you are below the majority of AWA pilots.

LOS does much better than the nic. Will still be above those hired after I was.....TY

I guess some of those hired at US, furloughed, then hired at AWA are a little upset? Are you?

 

[sniper]

The biggest mistake Usair did was dropping ALPA

Look at DL and NWA after all it was what it was
UAL and CAL same there .....


it only cost them half a million in wages

 

[Boeing747Driver]

LOS does much better than the nic. Will still be above those hired after I was.....TY

I guess some of those hired at US, furloughed, then hired at AWA are a little upset? Are you?

LOS is time active at the company. So how much active time do you have? I can tell you it is less than a 2003 AWA hire.

 

[Boeing747Driver]

APA just filed single carrier today.


From Judge Silvers Order

And when USAPA is no longer the
certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration.15

15 The parties have not explained how the process contemplated by the MOU could
ever take effect. The MOU contemplates the need for arbitration but also requires the postmerger
carrier remain neutral. Under the Court?s reading of McCaskill-Bond, there will be
no need for arbitration because, based on explicit language in the MOU, prior to the
arbitration, there will have been an election and there will be only one certified representative
for all pilots. Simply put, with the carrier having promised neutrality, there will not be two
parties to go to arbitration. Whether the post-merger carrier?s promise to remain neutral
regarding seniority violates the obligations imposed on it by McCaskill-Bond is an open
question and one not presented in this case.

 

[Boeing747Driver]

APA INFORMATION HOTLINE


APA FILES SINGLE-CARRIER PETITION: Today, the APA leadership and general counsel filed a petition for single-carrier/single-transportation-system status with the National Mediation Board (NMB). This filing is done to determine the representative body for the pilots of the new American Airlines as we proceed with upcoming joint collective bargaining agreement negotiations and the seniority integration process.

The NMB will conduct an investigation to determine if American Airlines and US Airways should be considered a single carrier for transportation purposes and if an election for representation should be considered. Other unions may intervene in the election if they provide an adequate "showing of interest."

Your leadership anticipates that APA will become the representative organization for the combined pilot group. The NMB will likely render its decision within the next six months.

 

[Bringupthebird]

APA FILES SINGLE-CARRIER PETITION:

Are there any sweeter 5 words in English language?

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Are there any sweeter 5 words in English language?

YEP the end of USAPA.

 

[AeroDMB]

Why the hell does it take six months?

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Why the hell does it take six months?

Within 6 months. I could be quicker.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

hold on there, Skippy....

Are there any sweeter 5 words in English language?

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but let's save that statement for a few years from now and see if you still feel the same. If they roll out the In 'N Out Burger truck. You had better eat up and celebrate fast. It may not last.

 

[Crzipilot]

LOS is time active at the company. So how much active time do you have? I can tell you it is less than a 2003 AWA hire.

Well a 2003 hire is coming up on his 11th yr this year correct? Whereas the '99 hires are either already at 11th yr or also coming up to 11th year this year.

Seems if it went straight LOS, then those '99 guys would be mixed in with the '03 hires, not stapled below the '05 hires. A couple hundred numbers I suppose.

Now if they go LOS adjusted for relative position, What does a 12/03 hire hold right now? Bottom line holder? top reserve? Middle Line holder?

Way to many factors to get into a pissing match just yet I suppose.

Bottom line, we wait and see what happens again.

 

[PuffDriver]

Apparently you've either never read the work rules that AWA is giving up in the MOU because of USAPA, or you can only cope by living in the past you so casually trashed.

I am sure that you know the pay rates US had in ancient antiquity were solely a result of the hard work and sacrifice of pilots at other airlines such as UAL, EAL and NWA. US never summoned the courage to defend their profession via a serious work action. You simply rode the tide and claimed credit for creating the sea.

AWA was an anchor on this industry. Always was from day 1. Not only are you wrong about USAirs rates and work rules, but even if you were right, it is something that AWA never did.

I know that the truth hurts. Keep suing.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but let's save that statement for a few years from now and see if you still feel the same. If they roll out the In 'N Out Burger truck. You had better eat up and celebrate fast. It may not last.

USAPA has been such a disaster that APA would have to set new frontiers in abuse and stupidity to even get close. APA sees USAPA for what it is and if that is the only common ground I have with them I will still be better off.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I know that the truth hurts.

Sure you do. The truth is that AWA had better:
Pay
Vacation
LTD
STD
Deadhead pay
Cancellation Pay
Schedules

Should I keep going on? Just because the truth hurts doesn't mean you have to be a masochist. Oh, wait USAPA supporters seem to derive pleasure from destroying their careers.

So I'll continue:

Cabin Jumpseat
Starting Pay
....

 

[PuffDriver]

Sure you do. The truth is that AWA had better:
Pay
Vacation
LTD
STD
Deadhead pay
Cancellation Pay
Schedules

Should I keep going on? Just because the truth hurts doesn't mean you have to be a masochist. Oh, wait USAPA supporters seem to derive pleasure from destroying their careers.

So I'll continue:

Cabin Jumpseat
Starting Pay
....

Well, you can cloud the issue all you want, since you know that you are wrong.
The actual facts are that USAir was in a BK contract, and had been the leader or right next to the leader in the industry in terms of compensation.

AWA never did anything to raise the bar anywhere, and had a marginally better contract (and that is debatable) than a contract resulting from a twice bankrupt carrier.

Indisputable.

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Well a 2003 hire is coming up on his 11th yr this year correct? Whereas the '99 hires are either already at 11th yr or also coming up to 11th year this year.

Seems if it went straight LOS, then those '99 guys would be mixed in with the '03 hires, not stapled below the '05 hires. A couple hundred numbers I suppose.

Now if they go LOS adjusted for relative position, What does a 12/03 hire hold right now? Bottom line holder? top reserve? Middle Line holder?

Way to many factors to get into a pissing match just yet I suppose.

Bottom line, we wait and see what happens again.

Probably about 40 lines holders Jr to me.
All 2003 hires are in year 11.

 

[Bringupthebird]

The actual facts are that USAir was in a BK contract, and had been the leader or right next to the leader in the industry in terms of compensation.

Which is sadder, the fact that you are talking about ancient history, or the fact that the BK contract was brought on by the pilots themselves (that wildly successful "Full Pay to the Last Day" campaign)?

Indisputable.

So true