Judge Silver issued her decision in Addington II

[j-3]

.....

 

[ALGFLYR]

.....

Sure, why not 3 threads about the same thing...

 

[Carl S.]

Punt.....

 

[ALGFLYR]

Punt.....

Lol... yep, that's about all you can do now...

 

[Carl S.]

Just like the DJ, punt for yards, nobody scored and we are headed into OT...

 

[Turtle21]

Just like the DJ, punt for yards, nobody scored and we are headed into OT...

Its your money. Enjoy it.

 

[abefly]

I suggest that anyone who thinks this is a win for USAPA read the order. Come up with your own conclusion. This simply means more delay. Nothing changed.

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...R_DJ/Order.pdf

 

[abefly]

iii. USAPA’s Ratification Argument is Wrong​

In reaching its conclusion on the DFR claim, the Court must stress it is not adopting​

an argument USAPA has repeatedly proffered. According to USAPA, it has always been​

free to ignore the Nicolau Award because its members will refuse to ratify anything other​

than a strict date-of-hire system. (The East Pilots outnumber the West Pilots and the East​

Pilots allegedly will refuse to ratify any agreement deemed advantageous to the West Pilots.)​

In effect, this is an argument that USAPA is free to treat the West Pilots poorly because that​

is what the majority of its members wish it to do. That is not the law. USAPA owes duties​

to​

​

​

​

all of its members. It cannot justify its actions by claiming it is merely acting as the​

conduit for enacting the East Pilots’ self-serving wishes. USAPA has never been free–and​

never will be free–to extract the maximum benefits for the East Pilots, regardless of the cost​

to the West Pilots.

vi. USAPA’s Position is Unwise​

USAPA has succeeded here but it is a Pyrrhic victory. As contemplated by the MOU,​

in the very near future an election will take place and a new representative will be chosen by​

all of the post-merger pilots.​

​

​

​

13 It is almost certain USAPA will lose that election. Once that​

happens, USAPA will no longer be entitled to participate in the seniority integration​

proceedings.14 The Court has no doubt that–as is USAPA’s consistent practice–USAPA will

change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority.​

That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only certified representatives should​

participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it​

will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be​

allowed to participate. The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided​

liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that​

USAPA will fairly and adequately represent ​

​

​

​

all of its members while it remains a certified​

representative. But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of​

CAB, “make every effort to see that [the West Pilots’] are given extensive consideration, and​

that their interests are fairly and fully represented” during seniority integration. National

Airlines, Acquisition​

​

​

​

​

, 84 C.A.B. 408, 477 (1979). And when USAPA is no longer the​

certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration

 

[Turtle21]

I suggest that anyone who thinks this is a win for USAPA read the order. Come up with your own conclusion. This simply means more delay. Nothing changed.

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...R_DJ/Order.pdf

When you send Marty your donation, ask him to explain why Judge Silver assumed USAPA has an obligation to use the Nic (pg. 10, ln. 17), and ask him if there is a single document that actually does obligate USAPA to use the Nic. Ya know, ask him if implicit assumptions are ducky with him.

 

[abefly]

When you send Marty your donation, ask him to explain why Judge Silver assumed USAPA has an obligation to use the Nic (pg. 10, ln. 17), and ask him if there is a single document that actually does obligate USAPA to use the Nic. Ya know, ask him if implicit assumptions are ducky with him.

USAPA not be a party to the SLI. So why does it matter. APA would be the one to ask. What list will they present to the arbitrators that slides under the DFR bar?

I agree it doesn't have to be the NIC. But I can assure you a D.O.H. list will not pass the DFR Bar.

This will not be over until a final list is published by the company. Only then can a DFR claim be truly ripe.

 

[Turtle21]

....

This will not be over until a final list is published by the company. Only then can a DFR claim be truly ripe.

Yeah, but think of all the money that has been exploited by crafty people since the courts allowed an implicit assumption that it was ripe years ago. What fees, salaries, and stipends where charged to the LLC? To FPL?

The West pilots will never recover any of the money they have donated for lawsuits, but I don't blame them for being passionate. Its like the East Pension lawsuits or any bitter divorce. People gotta spend their own money however they want.

Cheers

 

[Carl S.]

Fighting USAPA's land grab has been our burden, but living under LOA 93 for nine years was yours. This will be done by summer of 2015 and with the new rates, still making more and no DOH in the future...Statue of limitations forces us to file at every milestone, remember when Usapa said we were early and late in DFR I. The end game SLI is the finish line and I still like our chances.

 

[Turtle21]

Fighting USAPA's land grab has been our burden, but living under LOA 93 for nine years was yours. This will be done by summer of 2015 and with the new rates, still making more and no DOH in the future...Statue of limitations forces us to file at every milestone, remember when Usapa said we were early and late in DFR I. The end game SLI is the finish line and I still like our chances.

Did Marty send you the document that affirms the Nic must be used by anyone? He probably just needs more money.

 

[General Lee]

None of the below from the Judge's response sounds good:


"The Court?s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that
USAPA will fairly and adequately represent
all of its members while it remains a certified

representative. But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of
CAB, ?make every effort to see that [the West Pilots?] are given extensive consideration, and
that their interests are fairly and fully represented? during seniority integration. National
Airlines, Acquisition
, 84 C.A.B. 408, 477 (1979). And when USAPA is no longer the

certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration."



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

None of the below from the Judge's response sounds good:


"The Court?s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that
USAPA will fairly and adequately represent
all of its members while it remains a certified

representative. But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of
CAB, ?make every effort to see that [the West Pilots?] are given extensive consideration, and
that their interests are fairly and fully represented? during seniority integration. National
Airlines, Acquisition
, 84 C.A.B. 408, 477 (1979). And when USAPA is no longer the

certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration."



Bye Bye---General Lee

Dicta is where judges get to play in the political sandbox and award both sides a trophy so they think they didn't really lose. They get back into their role as judges when they narrow things down and say "IT IS ORDERED", because that is what gets affirmed or dismissed in an appeal.

Silver never cited a reason why USAPA or anyone else must use the Nic, instead she explicitly admitted that she assumed USAPA had an obligation to use it, and even then she still couldn't find USAPA guilty of not using it.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Turd- You make sure you vote NO on the Joint Contract that has a relative seniority list in place. Tell your friend too.

Sorry, that was cruel. I know you don't have any.

Better yet, don't pay APA any dues money if they don't go DOH. That'll show 'em you're serious!

 

[Metrojet]

Turd- You make sure you vote NO on the Joint Contract that has a relative seniority list in place. Tell your friend too.

Sorry, that was cruel. I know you don't have any.

Better yet, don't pay APA any dues money if they don't go DOH. That'll show 'em you're serious!

Do you really think it will be relative seniority thru out the whole list? Lets see - how many wide bodies does AA have vs US East and West?
Yup - lets put the PHX top 10% Captains in the left seat of our 777's. and before you respond - the top 10% of East Captains are in wide bodies .
Keep dreaming - eventually you guys will realize that you should have resolved this debacle way before this merger - now you will have to wait it out for a fair SLI just like all of us on the EAST, the only difference is that it cost you thousands of dollars.

Metrojet

 

[Turtle21]

Turd- You make sure you vote NO on the Joint Contract that has a relative seniority list in place. Tell your friend too.

Sorry, that was cruel. I know you don't have any.

Better yet, don't pay APA any dues money if they don't go DOH. That'll show 'em you're serious!

I accept your apology.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Do you really think it will be relative seniority thru out the whole list?

Only the APA knows for sure as they have 100% of the control over what goes to the arbitrators. But those arbitrators will no doubt look back on the work of one of their own and it will likely resemble the Nic.

But maybe you should demand that APA move it's HQ to CLT, the main fortress hub of the new AA. Strongly demand, I should say.

 

[waveflyer]

Look at APAs motivation-
It will be slanted well towards APA because of the wide bodies -and the bottom of the list will be fought over by east and west which will resemble nic -

The biggest plus -

It will FINALLY BE RESOLVED

The hope that APA will be the east's savior is naive

 

[Turtle21]

Look at APAs motivation-

It will be slanted well towards APA because of the wide bodies -and the bottom of the list will be fought over by east and west which will resemble nic -



The biggest plus -



It will FINALLY BE RESOLVED



The hope that APA will be the east's savior is naive

The APA got us a huge pay raise and an MOU that nullified the 2005 TA. They already saved us, so to speak .

It would already be "resolved" for you if you did not trouble yourself other people's issues.

 

[Bringupthebird]

When you drag the bar down for an entire industry for a decade because of your ignorance and stupidity, it becomes their issue.

 

[waveflyer]

Took the words out of my mouth bring

 

[Turtle21]

When you drag the bar down for an entire industry for a decade because of your ignorance and stupidity, it becomes their issue.

His "intervention" is merely an opportunity for me to "fart in his general direction".

After the defendant was subject to trial three times, in at least five courts (up to the SCOTUS), with lawyers on both sides being funded largely through donations and dues payments from the plaintiffs, the plaintiff never prevailed.

If he gave a hoot about you or the "industry problem" he would throw his money at Marty's feet too!

Cactuspilot.com. "Push for Justice"

 

[Bringupthebird]

Hey turd-
You do know that your side paid 66% of USAPA's defense and it consumed 100% of the attention of the "union". Aside from getting an injunction slammed on them, what else has your dues money gotten you? BTW- The MOU was a gift from the APA and your lump sum was a gift from ALPA. There are no more gifts in the mail.

 

[DCAA320]

Look at APAs motivation-
It will be slanted well towards APA because of the wide bodies -and the bottom of the list will be fought over by east and west which will resemble nic -

You bark like you can predict the future. Why don't you go teach a Navigation class over at your airline?

You ladies got lucky, again.

 

[eaglesview]

You bark like you can predict the future. Why don't you go teach a Navigation class over at your airline?

You ladies got lucky, again.

Now that was just plain mean........but accurate.

 

[Bringupthebird]

You bark like you can predict the future. Why don't you go teach a Navigation class over at your airline?

You ladies got lucky, again.

If you know anything about the history of the USeast, that's probably a road you don't want to go down.

But then again, when have you ever heeded good advice?

 

[PuffDriver]

When you drag the bar down for an entire industry for a decade because of your ignorance and stupidity, it becomes their issue.

What if you drag down the entire industry for the complete existence of your airline? (AWA)

 

[Bringupthebird]

What if you drag down the entire industry for the complete existence of your airline? (AWA)

Apparently you've either never read the work rules that AWA is giving up in the MOU because of USAPA, or you can only cope by living in the past you so casually trashed.

I am sure that you know the pay rates US had in ancient antiquity were solely a result of the hard work and sacrifice of pilots at other airlines such as UAL, EAL and NWA. US never summoned the courage to defend their profession via a serious work action. You simply rode the tide and claimed credit for creating the sea.